European parents/children

[geoger]

posting here for traffic…..
On holiday in Greece. Lots of Greek/Italian/Scandinavian families at the beach. I’ve noticed that the majority of parents I’ve seen are a bit ‘hands-off’ eg: very small children (2-4yo) left on the sand or to wander into the sea on their own, kids left unsupervised in the sea whilst the parents chill on the sunbeds etc. The parents seem so much more relaxed than I ever was when my dc were little. I also noticed that the children are very confident and mature. I speak Greek and Italian so I understand what they are saying to each other - the convos seem very ‘adult’ and their vocabulary is excellent for their age.
It’s all come to my attention today because a little Italian boy aged about 5 was deliberately splashing me, bumping into me in the sea and making jokes with me - he then wanted to play catch in the water with me. DH thought this hilarious and the more he laughed the more of my attention the little boy wanted. I could never imagine my own dc doing that to a stranger at that age.
Obvs I am only talking about a tiny group of people on a tiny resort on a tiny greek island so it may not apply to all European families but I was wondering if others had noticed this?

other than the British ones are sometimes wearing a rash vest!

I always bring back UV swimsuits or waterproof all in ones (for rain) to my cousins in Italy as presents for their DC. They see my DC (growing up in the UK) with them and put their orders in for the next visit! 😊

We Southern Europeans may be more relaxed with our DC in general but heaven forbid they are not wearing a vest (I'm guilty of this too - my DC are in vests until at least mid 20 degree weather)

We were in Spain last week and were eating at a restaurant by the beach. Whilst families ate, the children (even some very small toddlers) played and wondered around the restaurant and onto the beach. They weren't noisy or disruptive at all. They just seemed to potter around quite happily. I think it is to do with climate. In this country we (adults and kids!) spend so much of the year cooped up inside with cold, wet weather. It just isn't conducive to such a relaxed lifestyle.

But when the weather is nice at home or when on holiday lots of British children will be out later as well. Those Spanish children will probably be on holiday. They may live in apartments in cities. In the winter and in term time they're not all out walking the streets till all hours.
At dinner last night here there were several a French and Italian toddlers. By 10pm they were all watching a phone or asleep on a chair as not the type of hotel you can run around in.

There's a lot more judgement here & many parents are scared of being judged.

Also more child centric culture, it's ok for kids to be up past 7pm et.

British parents are really scared of strangers and I think part of this is that we are quite socially awkward as a nation. We tend to over-think, over-apologise (I get told off for this by non-British friends) and struggle to be direct.

I'm in France. Have been at campsite, beach and a large theme park so have seen a few different nationalities. It is definitely a myth that British children are always worse behaved than other nationalities. I have seen some little devils from all different places!

Also, having travelled to France for many years, I have noticed that a lot of French parents seem to be becoming more "hands on" than in the past. More fretting about sun-hats, sun cream etc. Lots of Dads baby-wearing.

I see outstanding parenting from the British usually. Engaged Dads playing with dc and parents that are so careful and vigilant around water. Toddler drownings happen too often, British parents are right to be careful

As someone whom has worked with families of multiple nationalities losing a small child to drowning overseas, and dealing with the indescribable agony, I can only applaud British families for being so careful around water, with their children’s skin, the organic nutritionally balanced children’s menu that can be enjoyed by little people. I love seeing them on holiday here, and see them mostly as very accomplished parents indeed that take their responsibilities seriously but also have fun. Dads are unusually very engaged too. Not all fathers are, some will only reprimand.

On the whole British teenagers turn out to be independent, gregarious and confident travellers so the parenting must be beneficial and age appropriate in my experience.

Oh yes we were in an Airbnb in Ammersee and the owner took us through the recycling in detail!

I've lived in Germany and Spain and the children have so much more freedom at a young age to play and explore compared to ours in Britain. I think this is why our teenagers are so much unhappier than theirs. The risk of e.g. a paedophile abduction is so much lower than the risk of a depressed teen, and yet in Britian we worry about the former too much and create the latter IMHO.

Currently on holiday in Austria and I have noticed lots of parents are more relaxed with very small children than I was with my DS at that age.

He's 9 now and a very competent swimmer so I am less 'on him' in the pool now.

I do think that children are generally more welcome here in restaurants/bats etc. My son loves his food and eats pretty much anything but I get strange looks in the UK if I order something 'adult' rather than the kids menu. Here, we are catered for in the hotel and there is no separate kids menu - it's been great as DS has been able to eat and try so many foods and I don't get looked at like I'm from another planet 😂 (they do have pasta available every night which can be eaten plain/with cheese/sauce for kids who don't want the regular menu). I wish it were more common in the UK to just have smaller portions of the regular menu.
The waiting staff are all great with kids too which is lovely.

the organic nutritionally balanced children’s menu that can be enjoyed by little people

Oh, come on. Most special 'kids' menus' as an add-on to normal menus have options like fish fingers and chips, chips and chicken in breadcrumbs, margherita pizza. It's nothing to be particularly praised.

???
Not really. Never heard of any parent telling a child to "find himself a lady" to do anything tbh.
Rather the expectation among parents in southern Europe is that in a relaxed setting, other parents (read: mums) can be counted on to step in and play with or help a child.

DH is German so that is basically my life.

Exactly. I would rather be overprotective and make sure there is 0 risk of my child being kidnapped/drowning then being carefree and dealing with the aftermath if it did happen.

Nobody thinks it will happen to them, until it does.

I’ve not seen this in Greece ever. But, children come from large extended families and all the adults help out with children

I have also noticed (not just from this years holiday) that children in Europe tend to look healthier/not be overweight. It’s prob the fact the Mediterranean diet is healthier, they spend much less time indoors and sweets/chocs are much more expensive in places like Greece (eg pack of Haribos in UK 80p here €2)
Again I’m only going by what I have observed from places I’ve visited

I live in Spain and small kids are out till 10/11pm eating out throughout the year, even when it's cold . My DS14 is often out till 12am at the weekend , on the beach with his mates . No worries about knives or violence . Kids are petrified of the police for a start so don't break the rules. They also respect adults, if they do get rowdy they are given a Sharp talking to and they listen and apologise. Adults aren't afraid to acknowledge small babies and children and make a fuss of them ...it's just normal. I'm not anxious or paranoid here at all ...it's bliss

Been in spain a fortnight myself and I saw it the other way, obnoxious whining Spanish kids up all hours way too tired/ on iPads with parents ignoring them and several dangerous circumstances in the sea and pools.

I imagine accidental deaths inc drowning would be higher in Spain if this is representative

It is neglectful not to be close to, or in water, with under 8s. Sorry!

We obviously holiday in very different places! I like the care and consideration taken over small people.

The number of drownings would halve if parents were more vigilant not less. I can’t believe anyone would suggest otherwise! Or make excuses ( which are dangerously inaccurate) that somehow because a two year old sees a pool more often because it’s a hot country therefore they are not likely to drown?! Young children drown too often because if complacency.

Letting your small child wonder off after dinner in an unfamiliar place is dangerous not ‘relaxed’ parenting.

Keeping them awake long into the night and then shouting at them the following day is not cool, or ‘passionate’ European parenting - it’s just selfish.

I see British parenting as being advanced and progressive.Being careful is not a sin, but a basic requirement as a parent.

The Madeline McCann case has never been forgotten.

My mum is a (now retired) primary teacher, 45 years so a lot of British kids have passed before her. We live in France, and she has consistently noticed how confident, articulate and polite my kids French friends are, from an early age. Several reasons I can think of:

Social politeness is utterly drummed into them from day one. Even the youngest children are expected to say ‘bonjour monsieur/ madame’ to any adult they encounter - whether it’s a neighbour or someone they don’t know. I remember going on a hike and meeting a family coming the opposite way - all the kids, even the youngest trilled ‘bonjour Madame!’ as I passed them 😂 on the track. Shyness is not an excuse. Parents get bollocked by older people if their children don’t say ‘bonjour’ correctly 🙄

At school they have to learn by heart and recite poems in front of the class, from a really young age. They do this regularly throughout school. As they get older, they will work towards a grand oral exam - where they make a prepared presentation to a jury of examiners, and are grilled on it. The ability to talk fluently, from memory, and to defend your ideas is considered a very important skill and, again, it’s not optional- every student has to do it.

Discipline is quite strict. Smacking is not illegal and my dc have told me of their friends being smacked, having their ears boxed, being slapped. My French colleagues have smacked their kids and don’t see any problem with it.

@Nomorebollocks smacking is very much illegal in France. It has been for 4 years now.

I do agree with the politeness though. My kids grew up in Belgium and France and would always greet shop keepers, waiters etc from as early as they possibly could. It all became weird though when we went to the UK or my home country, Sweden, and they called everyone Madame or Monsieur. I don't personally like the formality of it, but I do like that they have no choice to opt out of politeness.

😂

Just been on holiday in Spain and my DD (8) is a strong swimmer but I still monitor her. She made friends with girl the same age from Europe and the parents were nowhere to be seen.
Last year I saw 2 Spanish kids in the pool one with armbands both under 6 no parents anywhere
I’m not sure what age I would let DD go to a pool without me (there are several pools in the complex)