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AIBU?

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Original poster

You and your family could be asylum seekers by this time next year.

477 replies

Nevermay · 14/08/2023 08:35

Just want to point this out, as many posters seem to be of the opinion that asylum seekers are a different species, with different aspirations, different hopes and fears, different medical biology, and different housing and nutritional requirements than the rest of humanity

It could be you and your family next year.

There could be any number of natural disasters in the UK. Meteor strike? Tsunami? Volcanic eruption? All of these are likely in the UK at some point. There could be manmade disasters, war, famine, there could be something more personal that happens to you, you could be a witness being searched for by a hostile government.

You might be a highly qualified professional, ( many asylum seekers in the UK are) you could have worked hard all your life to pay off your mortgage ( many asylum seekers in the UK have) you could have kept yourself fit and healthy all your life and you may also have an assortment of serious or trivial medical needs. You might have french or spanish GCSE to help you, or you might not.

None of these things will mark you out as special, or different, if you are in a crowd of asylum seekers seeking refuge in another country. You will just have to sit and wait and hope with everybody else, maybe for years, your children with you.

I really wish people understood this, refugees and asylum seekers are no different to our own population, some are uneducated, some are criminal, most are decent people, many are highly qualified and come from affluent and successful back grounds.

When ever you think and speak about them, please just keep in mind, this could be you next year.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
Coolasakebab · 14/08/2023 20:28

Other circumstance that could make us asylum seekers? If our economy collapses and we can’t afford food imports, we’re going to get quite hungry. Brexit means it’s pretty expensive to import into the UK. Are you sure you could afford food if it is twice the price? Are you going to stay here and starve, or try to move overseas and seek a bette life?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 14/08/2023 21:08

This reply has been deleted

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If Putin were to nuke the UK you will be toast and your aunty in Spain will be glowing with radioactivity as well.

And I'm pretty confident that Eurostar won't be running either.

TB will be the least of anyone's worries.

3dogsandarabbit · 14/08/2023 22:06

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Coriolise · 14/08/2023 22:50

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😂🤣 If Putin nukes the U.K. there won’t be a Eurostar train or train track left. Nuclear explosions are a tad hot. They tend to vaporise trains, train tracks and all that is left of train passengers are smears of grease and ash.

The only refuges from nuking the U.K. would be a few from the fringes who managed to get to further islands and then on to say the Faroes or Iceland or Scilly

WeetabixTowels · 14/08/2023 23:15

This thread reminds me of when I worked for the local authority and we had to waste a day a year doing ‘emergency planning training’. Basically “if the local nuclear power plant exploded, this will be your job Weetabix, that your job Susan.”

I made it VERY clear every year that if any nuclear explosions happened, I would not be coming to work and they’re deluded if they think anyone is 😂

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 23:18

WeetabixTowels · 14/08/2023 23:15

This thread reminds me of when I worked for the local authority and we had to waste a day a year doing ‘emergency planning training’. Basically “if the local nuclear power plant exploded, this will be your job Weetabix, that your job Susan.”

I made it VERY clear every year that if any nuclear explosions happened, I would not be coming to work and they’re deluded if they think anyone is 😂

My DS's Emergency Planning Training was actually called upon a few weeks ago when there was a major issue with their local water supply. She works for a local authority and they ended up distributing water where they water company failed dismally to implement any sort of plan. So as mad as a nuclear scenario might be, the training is worthwhile

Original poster
Nevermay · 14/08/2023 23:43

WeetabixTowels · 14/08/2023 23:15

This thread reminds me of when I worked for the local authority and we had to waste a day a year doing ‘emergency planning training’. Basically “if the local nuclear power plant exploded, this will be your job Weetabix, that your job Susan.”

I made it VERY clear every year that if any nuclear explosions happened, I would not be coming to work and they’re deluded if they think anyone is 😂

emergency procedure planning is crucial, and I have been involved when it has had to be used, so I don't know why you think it is funny - and if you personally are going to refuse to play a role, then I am glad you made it clear or people could be relying on you in an emergency situation. Please don't think nobody would though. Many people would do and have done.

OP posts:
Threenow · 14/08/2023 23:51

littleblackcat27 · 14/08/2023 09:45

Being superior in your extensive knowledge to the OP - maybe you could explain why it's so unlikely?

Shit happens.

We live in the northwest of England, and have had 2 'little' earthquakes here. Who's to say when a much larger earthquake could happen?

Show quote history

I live in NZ, we have earthquakes all the time, some of them large. People don't seek asylum anywhere because of them, and while there are plans in place to deal with "the big one" I don't believe moving everyone offshore is part of them. I really don't think a tsunami or a volcanic eruption would cause people to seek asylum either.

TheAverageJoanne · 14/08/2023 23:55

user1477391263 · 14/08/2023 08:43

I'm.... not sure that any of the above is very likely, OP. In addition, the situation with Ukraine suggests that when people (men, women and kids) are made refugees en masse as an act of God, the response by other countries tends to be a bit different to the way most countries react to predominently young and male economic migrants. So I do not think this is actually a very good analogy.

Wasn't it an a act of Vlad, not God?

Remembermynamealways · 15/08/2023 07:48

This is a beyond stupid thread.

Newbutoldfather · 15/08/2023 07:56

It. Is very unlikely that anyone in the UK could become an asylum seeker, but I understand that is not really your point.

Yes, we should treat all immigrants with decency and humanity, but that does not mean letting them all stay, regardless. The Tories recent language around immigration has been pretty horrific, and it is a dog whistle to the far right ahead of an election. Who knows what they actually believe…

However, the reality is that we cannot accommodate an infinite stream of migrants, regardless of their motivations, and it is incredibly hard to separate asylum seekers from economic immigrants and even the (small) amount of criminals and spies who are trying to enter the country.

All rich countries have the same problem, which will only be exacerbated by global warming, and there is no easy solution. What we have at the moment is complete polarisation of society, between those who believe all immigration is good and those who believe all immigration is bad. The reality is we do need immigrants, and they are an economic plus, but the numbers and types do need to be limited.

frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 07:57

Well it’s not “magic” but the U.K. is under the US protection for city destroying sized meteors. The counter nuclear warhead defences also work on these.

That's good to know, but I guess it very much depends on our keeping good relations with the USA. Allegiances change.

frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 07:59

I made it VERY clear every year that if any nuclear explosions happened, I would not be coming to work and they’re deluded if they think anyone is

I must confess, I've taken days off for much less!

Original poster
Nevermay · 15/08/2023 08:14

frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 07:57

Well it’s not “magic” but the U.K. is under the US protection for city destroying sized meteors. The counter nuclear warhead defences also work on these.

That's good to know, but I guess it very much depends on our keeping good relations with the USA. Allegiances change.

The US can't help with this, and we don't need their help for larger meteorites, and least not their exclusive help. They are part of the international cooperative that defends against major "extinction level" events. It is the size below that which I am talking about.

OP posts:
frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 08:18

Nevermay · 15/08/2023 08:14

The US can't help with this, and we don't need their help for larger meteorites, and least not their exclusive help. They are part of the international cooperative that defends against major "extinction level" events. It is the size below that which I am talking about.

Show quote history

Ah I see! I must confess to ignorance about this. I have learned some new stuff on this thread. Thanks.

Original poster
Nevermay · 15/08/2023 08:26

frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 08:18

Ah I see! I must confess to ignorance about this. I have learned some new stuff on this thread. Thanks.

Show quote history

you are welcome, I am glad you find it interesting - planetary defence is a very interesting area - scientists all over the world scan the sky constantly and make their findings public every day - even in countries where the governments don't speak to each other. We are very effectively protected against a surprise extinction level event such as the meteorite which killed the dinosaurs. We would literally have years to plan a deflection, and could do so quite easily. Small meteorites are more of a risk to us personally, as there are literally millions of them, and they are hard to monitor and predict. Strikes could be immensely damaging, it hasn't happened in a populated area yet, but that's just a matter of time - strikes happen. No country has ever shot one down, even if it was going to hit them, and even if they did shoot it, I can't see how that would lesson the damage, as there would still be just as much matter travelling just as fast after being hit with a missile, so a bit pointless. It is not like shooting at a missile, to destroy it in the air, where the danger is the explosive material on board, and not the speed or mass of the flying object.

OP posts:
CampsieGlamper · 15/08/2023 08:33

It has been pointed out that the Uk state approves around 80% or so of asylum applications. France approved a lot fewer other countries I'm not sure. Clearly to UK government is not attempting to raise the bar for approval or declining of criteria for acceptance of asylum applications. The rhetoric of "stop the boats" is therefore hot air.

Coolasakebab · 15/08/2023 08:34

Newbutoldfather · 15/08/2023 07:56

It. Is very unlikely that anyone in the UK could become an asylum seeker, but I understand that is not really your point.

Yes, we should treat all immigrants with decency and humanity, but that does not mean letting them all stay, regardless. The Tories recent language around immigration has been pretty horrific, and it is a dog whistle to the far right ahead of an election. Who knows what they actually believe…

However, the reality is that we cannot accommodate an infinite stream of migrants, regardless of their motivations, and it is incredibly hard to separate asylum seekers from economic immigrants and even the (small) amount of criminals and spies who are trying to enter the country.

All rich countries have the same problem, which will only be exacerbated by global warming, and there is no easy solution. What we have at the moment is complete polarisation of society, between those who believe all immigration is good and those who believe all immigration is bad. The reality is we do need immigrants, and they are an economic plus, but the numbers and types do need to be limited.

We are legally obliged to accept all genuine asylum seekers - those fleeing terror. Afghanistan is a country we ought to be welcoming asylum seekers from, not forcing Afghans to get on dodgy boats and drown in the process. Accepting Ukrainians and not afghans just comes down to racism. And why is it predominantly young men? Why do you think??? Do you think your nan is up to travelling across Europe and hopping on a dinghy?

CampsieGlamper · 15/08/2023 08:35

I think it was Theresa May who said no a blanket ban on asylum to South African farmers or others who were being forced out of business by racist policies of their government.

frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 08:37

Nevermay · 15/08/2023 08:26

you are welcome, I am glad you find it interesting - planetary defence is a very interesting area - scientists all over the world scan the sky constantly and make their findings public every day - even in countries where the governments don't speak to each other. We are very effectively protected against a surprise extinction level event such as the meteorite which killed the dinosaurs. We would literally have years to plan a deflection, and could do so quite easily. Small meteorites are more of a risk to us personally, as there are literally millions of them, and they are hard to monitor and predict. Strikes could be immensely damaging, it hasn't happened in a populated area yet, but that's just a matter of time - strikes happen. No country has ever shot one down, even if it was going to hit them, and even if they did shoot it, I can't see how that would lesson the damage, as there would still be just as much matter travelling just as fast after being hit with a missile, so a bit pointless. It is not like shooting at a missile, to destroy it in the air, where the danger is the explosive material on board, and not the speed or mass of the flying object.

Show quote history

Thank you for this! So interesting... I must admit my knowledge of this was pretty much limited to that movie, "Armageddon" because my DH likes it...ahem!

I am going to start looking out for the public findings. Is there a particular site I can use or will it just make it's way into the papers? Unless there are celebrity scandals which naturally make the front page, ha!

CampsieGlamper · 15/08/2023 08:37

GP surgery with 7000 patients, 100 Syrian/Afghan refugees.
One refugee has has 50 appointments with a gp or nurse in the last year. The average for a UK patient is 7. One indigenous patient has had 70.

Original poster
Nevermay · 15/08/2023 09:07

frumpyflora · 15/08/2023 08:37

Thank you for this! So interesting... I must admit my knowledge of this was pretty much limited to that movie, "Armageddon" because my DH likes it...ahem!

I am going to start looking out for the public findings. Is there a particular site I can use or will it just make it's way into the papers? Unless there are celebrity scandals which naturally make the front page, ha!

Show quote history

well, the actual data I have seen has been in lectures, and I don't have a record of where it came from now, but when I am teaching, I use material from NASA, ESA and united nations planetary defence, so you could look there! I have not looked myself for at least a year, ( off work sick) so I don't know what is current

OP posts:
LastTrainEast · 15/08/2023 09:10

But if that happened you're actually BE an asylum seeker and we take those in. We actually invited women and children from Ukraine (they didn't send men as they were fighting to defend their country)

The real scenario you should consider is what happens to a British person about to lose their benefits because they can't be bothered to look for work if they decide to try Spain in the hopes of getting a free house and money.

You'd have to throw away your passport and pretend to be from a war zone (that's why they do). It wouldn't work to turn up in some EU country and say "the view from my Islington apartment is not nice enough so I demand you give me everything I want and make it snappy"

You must know this already. You didn't think it odd that they were just young men who hadn't brought families with them (left them in the mythical war zone)

Dotjones · 15/08/2023 09:13

It's almost impossible to believe anyone in the UK could be a legitimate asylum seeker next year. Maybe in five years by the time Keir Starmer's mob have got in power and have had time to wreck the country more than the Tories managed in 14 years or so, but not next year.

It'd be interesting to see how well other countries treated us if we were asylum seekers. I suspect that the reception we get would be much less welcoming than the one we offer to legal and illegal immigrants at present. If we rocked up in France or Germany or Poland we'd be incredibly lucky if they gave us free health care and accommodation in an old army barracks or barge.

LastTrainEast · 15/08/2023 09:20

The arguments are getting pretty standardized now. The next one is that they probably came here as they have family or some legal right to be here. But then of course the LAST thing they would do is destroy their papers. They would turn up and present them.

A good time to put an end to the "international law says they can enter illegally" nonsense.
The 1951 Refugee Convention says there should be no penalty for entering uninvited if directly fleeing from a country where you are in immediate danger. So no not France.

That's for when you make it to the border 10 minutes ahead of the Nazis.