Page 16 | You and your family could be asylum seekers by this time next year.

Nevermay · 2023-08-14T07:35:58+00:00

Just want to point this out, as many posters seem to be of the opinion that asylum seekers are a different species, with different aspirations, different hopes and fears, different medical biology, and different housing and nutritional requirements than the rest of humanity It could be you and your family next year. There could be any number of natural disasters in the UK. Meteor strike? Tsunami? Volcanic eruption? All of these are likely in the UK at some point. There could be manmade disasters, war, famine, there could be something more personal that happens to you, you could be a witness being searched for by a hostile government. You might be a highly qualified professional, ( many asylum seekers in the UK are) you could have worked hard all your life to pay off your mortgage ( many asylum seekers in the UK have) you could have kept yourself fit and healthy all your life and you may also have an assortment of serious or trivial medical needs. You might have french or spanish GCSE to help you, or you might not. None of these things will mark you out as special, or different, if you are in a crowd of asylum seekers seeking refuge in another country. You will just have to sit and wait and hope with everybody else, maybe for years, your children with you. I really wish people understood this, refugees and asylum seekers are no different to our own population, some are uneducated, some are criminal, most are decent people, many are highly qualified and come from affluent and successful back grounds. When ever you think and speak about them, please just keep in mind, this could be you next year.

bruffin · 14/08/2023 14:59

Chersfrozenface · 14/08/2023 09:46

It is unlikely that it was a tsunami. It was more likely a storm surge, like the one that hit Essex in 1953, killing over one hundred people, but magnified by the geography of the Severn Estuary.

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Scientist originally thought it was a storm surge but now believe to be Tsunami

Jamtartforme · 14/08/2023 15:17

Orangemoon8 · 14/08/2023 14:51

Actually @JamSandle is correct, if we keep destroying the planet and killing off all the insects we’ll all die. We really need to take this seriously. And I am not against uk taking asylum seekers at all, but we need to find ways to do so whilst caring for our planet.

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People dismissing insects are hilarious, they think it’s because we’re prioritising flies over people when it’s actually because they’re an essential part of the food chain and the existence of nature. When you don’t understand this you’re the one who has lost the argument in my opinion.

Chersfrozenface · 14/08/2023 15:31

bruffin · 14/08/2023 14:59

Scientist originally thought it was a storm surge but now believe to be Tsunami

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A tsunami would have devastated West Wales, Cornwall and Ireland and there are no records of any such event at the same time.

There was a very high spring tide in the Bristol Channel, almost 26 feet / 8 metres, and a severe south westerly gale, both recorded at the time.

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:47

@3dogsandarabbit "Keepyaheadup - So who was supporting him for the five years and where were they living? He has been here 5 years and he is only just starting to learn English?"

He came with nothing, and hasn't been working so he's received help from charities and from the local authority, I presume. He's certainly been living in temporary accommodation, then was housed through a registered provider. None of my business, really so I haven't delved too much. They managed to enrol their 2 children in school fairly quickly but the work thing has been painful. He's been doing the school run and has picked up language chatting to parents, and his children and wife help. But yes, he's only just been in a position to have more formal lessons.

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:50

@Sunnydays41 "
If building on green land is so good for nature, why has the flying insect population declined by 60% in the past 20 years?"

Don't try to be cute. Building per se isn't good for nature but the Environment Act was passed in 2021 and it has lots of hooks which can dramatically improve the outlook for equality. It's one thing I will say for Gove - he's done a good job on the environment as far as securing improvement through development is concerned. The past 20 years - you'll have to ask the generation before me

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:51

@Sunnydays41 "That doesn't really answer the question though, does it?

How many of the young men in boats do you think are qualified teachers, doctors, dentists"

No idea - how many?

Or do you have no fucking idea - you just assume they're all scum because....?

Jamtartforme · 14/08/2023 15:52

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:50

@Sunnydays41 "
If building on green land is so good for nature, why has the flying insect population declined by 60% in the past 20 years?"

Don't try to be cute. Building per se isn't good for nature but the Environment Act was passed in 2021 and it has lots of hooks which can dramatically improve the outlook for equality. It's one thing I will say for Gove - he's done a good job on the environment as far as securing improvement through development is concerned. The past 20 years - you'll have to ask the generation before me

Do you think there is leeway for more environmental damage?

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:53

@WeetabixTowels "agree - I can’t even begin to articulate why it’s so important to preserve our green spaces and not just plonk ugly building over them to accommodate the burgeoning over population.I don’t even know where to begin."

Don't have kids of your own, presumably. Given that you're so concerned about over population.

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:55

@Sunnydays41 - Save An Insect, Keep The Brown People Out. Its win win!

Coriolise · 14/08/2023 15:57

@KeepYaHeadUp
We don't build in flood zones unless in exceptional circs (tho crap drainage might lead to flooding) and since the Environment Bill came in planning authorities and developers have to deliver biodiversity net gain, and many are ploughing investment into nature recovery. So yes, building may be bad news for nature on a specific sqm of field but overall can deliver huge benefits. Large swathes of greenfield land (and green belt while we're at it) is crap agriculturally speaking and for nature. It's poor value in terms of carbon capture, ecology and has little landscape value either.

The comment that we don’t build in flood zones is completely incorrect. We have been building in flood zones since the ramp up of construction post WWII with the devastating consequences being that flooding is now normalised in the U.K. during periods of high rainfall. In a 2021 report to Parliament, 5.2 million homes in England alone are at risk of flooding. The Environment Agency has said that if current planning outcomes continue, this number could double in the next 50 years. https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/housing-developments-on-functional-flood-plains/
Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have a higher risk of flood than England. In addition, a full 10% of new homes built from 2013 to 2020 were build on flood plains. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/19/one-in-ten-new-homes-in-england-built-on-land-with-high-flood-risk

The bio diversity net gain of concreting over meadows and farm fields to build housing estates is a pipe dream. It cannot be done. And your comment about greenfield/green belt being crap for nature , carbon capture and ecology is pure bollocks. Yes a lot can’t be used for agriculture, but it can be rewilded for native wildlife. The trees, shrubs, grasses, fungus, insects, small mammal and birds all make their habitats in this ‘crap land’. Even the most boring peat bog is a huge carbon sink.

One in 10 new homes in England built on land with high flood risk

Number of properties built in high-risk areas has more than doubled in recent years

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/19/one-in-ten-new-homes-in-england-built-on-land-with-high-flood-risk

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:57

In fact, this insects thing is HILARIOUS to me. It used to be badgers, great crested newts. Now it's just insects generally. If pretending to the world that your priority here is insects helps you sleep at night then you go for it. Just know that a lot of people SEE you and they know, deep down, who and what you are.

CloudyMcCloud · 14/08/2023 16:00

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:55

@Sunnydays41 - Save An Insect, Keep The Brown People Out. Its win win!

How many ‘Brown People’ would you like to come in?

Howmuchfurther · 14/08/2023 16:03

JaukiVexnoydi · 14/08/2023 09:04

We are very fortunate in the UK that the vast majority of those things couldn't actually happen here.

However the point is still valid because british people aren't qualitatively better or more deserving of comfort and security than those who are forced into thr position of being asylum seekers. They aren't any different from us just because of having been born in a country that is now unstable and unsafe.

There are 37 million refugees in the world out of a population of 7.8 billion (about half of one percent of the world's population)
The UK's "fair share" of that 37 million would be about 320,000 whereas in fact we have 230,000. As a prosperous nation with a culture of freedom and acceptance of diversity we should be doing more than our fair share, not less.

The British system of free trade, solid property rights, predictable laws, hitherto minimal Govt interference is what made the UK an attractive place.

We are losing those now.

We may become refugees not from natural disaster but from an ever growing state making us poor.

loislovesstewie · 14/08/2023 16:05

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:57

In fact, this insects thing is HILARIOUS to me. It used to be badgers, great crested newts. Now it's just insects generally. If pretending to the world that your priority here is insects helps you sleep at night then you go for it. Just know that a lot of people SEE you and they know, deep down, who and what you are.

But insects,bees ,butterflies etc are important in the eco system. Lots of insects pollinate plants,many being ones that produce food for us. Insects are ,in the UK, the main pollinators . So, mock all you want, but when we start to have food shortages as we have killed off insects , none of us will be laughing. When, they are gone, that's it.

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 16:08

I don't mock. Ecology is a large part of my profession. I just don't think protecting people and protecting the planet are mutually exclusive.

What I'm saying is there is a group who will grab onto anything (insects, not enough doctors, dangerous fighting age men) to say something without just admitting what is blindingly obvious to many of us. They can gasp and feign horror at the insinuation, but we see it. I want them to know that.

I'm done with this thread. Hope to god none of you ever end up desperate enough to put your family at risk on a bloody boat

CloudyMcCloud · 14/08/2023 16:12

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 16:08

I don't mock. Ecology is a large part of my profession. I just don't think protecting people and protecting the planet are mutually exclusive.

What I'm saying is there is a group who will grab onto anything (insects, not enough doctors, dangerous fighting age men) to say something without just admitting what is blindingly obvious to many of us. They can gasp and feign horror at the insinuation, but we see it. I want them to know that.

I'm done with this thread. Hope to god none of you ever end up desperate enough to put your family at risk on a bloody boat

No answer on numbers before you go?

Why is that never answered

Frustrating to do the you’re all racist blast but no actual figures and the reality of suggestions

Jamtartforme · 14/08/2023 16:14

CloudyMcCloud · 14/08/2023 16:12

No answer on numbers before you go?

Why is that never answered

Frustrating to do the you’re all racist blast but no actual figures and the reality of suggestions

Show quote history

Because they can’t answer it.

Original poster

Nevermay · 14/08/2023 16:21

WelcomeEverythingIsFine · 14/08/2023 09:35

Volcanic eruption and tsunami 🤣🤣 I hope you aren’t a geography teacher!!!!!!!! In the UK flooding and wildfire are probably the most likely natural hazards to affect us. Your point is completely lost by how wrong you have got the facts here.

gosh, this thread has really run away while I've been out, and I can't answer everyone. But I have to say I am gobsmacked by the number of people who seem in genuine ignorance about the liklihood of natural disasters in the UK.
I might start another thread about this, as it wasn't really the main point of this one. I just took it for granted that most of us are reasonably educated. I thought everyone knew that when the volcano under Tenerife eventually implodes it may well wipe large areas of western Europe off the map, with the UK and Portugal directly in the firing line...

and tsunamis, yes, UK has had tsunamis in the past, and will in the future, and yes, I have taught geography.....

and meteor strikes, again, why the sneering? Do you think there is some sort of magical dome over the UK to deflect them?

OP posts:

loislovesstewie · 14/08/2023 16:26

Well, we can't do anything about natural disasters , and most of us think that if it happened we wouldn't become refugees. If we were invaded by another country I suspect most of us would have to stay. We couldn't all escape could we,practically?

Coriolise · 14/08/2023 16:28

I thought everyone knew that when the volcano under Tenerife eventually implodes it may well wipe large areas of western Europe off the map, with the UK and Portugal directly in the firing line...

🤣 Sorry but that was a bit of doom mongering in 2017 due to seismic activity leading up to the la palma volcano eruption that just happened in 2021…and what do you know? Spain, Portugal and the U.K. were not wiped out by a Tsunami 3 hours later as predicted in 2017.

Coriolise · 14/08/2023 16:31

and meteor strikes, again, why the sneering? Do you think there is some sort of magical dome over the UK to deflect them?
Well it’s not “magic” but the U.K. is under the US protection for city destroying sized meteors. The counter nuclear warhead defences also work on these.

Larger planet destroying asteroid protection is in R&D.

Sunnydays41 · 14/08/2023 16:36

Coriolise · 14/08/2023 15:57

@KeepYaHeadUp
We don't build in flood zones unless in exceptional circs (tho crap drainage might lead to flooding) and since the Environment Bill came in planning authorities and developers have to deliver biodiversity net gain, and many are ploughing investment into nature recovery. So yes, building may be bad news for nature on a specific sqm of field but overall can deliver huge benefits. Large swathes of greenfield land (and green belt while we're at it) is crap agriculturally speaking and for nature. It's poor value in terms of carbon capture, ecology and has little landscape value either.

The comment that we don’t build in flood zones is completely incorrect. We have been building in flood zones since the ramp up of construction post WWII with the devastating consequences being that flooding is now normalised in the U.K. during periods of high rainfall. In a 2021 report to Parliament, 5.2 million homes in England alone are at risk of flooding. The Environment Agency has said that if current planning outcomes continue, this number could double in the next 50 years. https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/housing-developments-on-functional-flood-plains/
Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have a higher risk of flood than England. In addition, a full 10% of new homes built from 2013 to 2020 were build on flood plains. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/19/one-in-ten-new-homes-in-england-built-on-land-with-high-flood-risk

The bio diversity net gain of concreting over meadows and farm fields to build housing estates is a pipe dream. It cannot be done. And your comment about greenfield/green belt being crap for nature , carbon capture and ecology is pure bollocks. Yes a lot can’t be used for agriculture, but it can be rewilded for native wildlife. The trees, shrubs, grasses, fungus, insects, small mammal and birds all make their habitats in this ‘crap land’. Even the most boring peat bog is a huge carbon sink.

Absolutely this.

Jamtartforme · 14/08/2023 16:37

Do you think there is some sort of magical dome over the UK to deflect them?

A meteor strike big enough to warrant the evacuation of the entire country would mean there was nobody left to evacuate anyway.

Sunnydays41 · 14/08/2023 16:38

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 15:57

In fact, this insects thing is HILARIOUS to me. It used to be badgers, great crested newts. Now it's just insects generally. If pretending to the world that your priority here is insects helps you sleep at night then you go for it. Just know that a lot of people SEE you and they know, deep down, who and what you are.

Don't be facetious. If you know as much about ecology as you say you do, you'll realise the critical role that insects play in holding our whole existence together.

Sunnydays41 · 14/08/2023 16:42

KeepYaHeadUp · 14/08/2023 16:08

I don't mock. Ecology is a large part of my profession. I just don't think protecting people and protecting the planet are mutually exclusive.

What I'm saying is there is a group who will grab onto anything (insects, not enough doctors, dangerous fighting age men) to say something without just admitting what is blindingly obvious to many of us. They can gasp and feign horror at the insinuation, but we see it. I want them to know that.

I'm done with this thread. Hope to god none of you ever end up desperate enough to put your family at risk on a bloody boat

So you think the environment, an NHS that already can't cope and first-hand accounts from people living in parts of the UK where immigration is a problem aren't important? How privileged you must be.