Kids should stand on public transport?

[Loulou599]

I was on a crowded 1.5 hour train where half of the passengers were standing. There were 3 kids ( not together, each with an adult) who were sitting in a seat, I would guess they were all roughly the same age, around 6 years old.
I thought that kids that age should either stand or sit on their parents lap (I know that's not the most comfortable but standing for an hour and a half isn't either).
What do you think? I just thought it was messed up that these kids were chilling in seats while you had a lot of people in their 50s/60s (not old, not visibly in discomfort) standing, but then I wondered whether it's harder for a child to stand at that age (I don't have kids).

Can you imagine the reaction you'd get in real life (as opposed to the strange wonderland that exists in some MNers' heads) if a child actually offered their seat to a healthy non-disabled 50 year old woman?

The poor woman would immediately think "OK, so apparently I either look extremely aged and haggard today or I look like I might be pregnant. Good times!?"

Or a 30yr?
I'd assume people thought I was pregnant.

Under-fives should be on their parents' laps on busy trains. This is a condition of their free travel. If their parents want them to sit while paying passengers stand, then the parents need to pay for a ticket for them.

Above that age, it's first come, first served. Except for the priority seats which should be offered to elderly/disabled/infirm/pregnant etc. passengers. If you wish to offer your seat, or those of your own kids for other passengers to use, that is up to you of course.

Children under five travelling for free must give up their seat if others need it. It’s in the National Rail rules: “Please note, children under 5 who are travelling without a ticket may only occupy a seat that is not required by a fare-paying passenger.”

If people feel they can’t obey the rules, then don’t travel by train.

But the children being discussed on this thread aren’t under 5.

Most people have agreed they’d put a child 4 and under on their knee, should someone require the seat.

DS came home on the luggage rack once. Sadly he never got to do it again because the luggage racks usually have luggage in. Apparently it was his best train journey ever.

If a child was standing, I’d give up my seat for them - more at risk of overbalancing, but also little people get tired & need a sit down.

That said, if public transport was v crowded I’d stand while my kids sat so we weren’t taking up excessive seats as a family.

Plenty of under 5s are not travelling for free - I always buy DS a child ticket, so that I can use my friends and family railcard. His ticket costs £2, including a seat reservation, and it gets me 33% off mine.

You are using a lot of paragraphs to prove you should get a seat when you haven’t reserved one. Just reserve a seat, or suck it up when the people who have reserved seats are sitting in them.

It's really difficult, we had this a little while back with my 7 year old and my 7 year old niece.

They both look "normal", but my kid has hypermobility. This means that when sitting or standing in place the joints don't "lock" into a comfortable, balanced, subconscious position. It takes constant energy to readjust how position because the joints just don't work right. It's a massive battle everywhere to get people to understand that sitting up, sitting still, perfect posture and incredibly difficult to maintain. A moment's loss of concentration on holding themselves upright and they'll be in a heap on the floor.

My niece, again, looks completely healthy and normal. When she was a baby however she had a form of epilepsy called Infantile Spasms, which led to brain damage with a similar outcome to dyspraxia. She has very little balance, an unusual gait, and on top of this the drugs she had to take to allow her to lead a normal life have given her a very low muscle tone.

You would honestly just look at these two kids and think there's nothing at all wrong with them though. You just can't tell what's going on with people. You might think you can, but you just can't.

Come off it, the average 50 or 60 year old is as capable of standing as any younger adult. Seats should only be offered for someone looking frail or unwell or heavily pregnant. Or if they ask politely and have a good reason. Small kids are better to sit down although when mine were young I would take them on my lap beyond the age of 6 (despite being lightly built myself).

Everybody just get in the car and we'll all have a seat.

I'm 60. I would offer my seat to a standing small child as they do t have such a well developed sense of balance and can't hold on the same.

And if you buy a ticket with a seat reservation, usually, your ticket is only valid with that seat so you can’t stand for someone else.

If I was travelling with my 6 and 9 year old I'd want them to share a seat if it was busy and I'd rather stand. If there's multiple people standing they often get bashed in the face by backpacks, people not seeing them etc.

I'd give up my seat for a child. Why should a child give their seat up for me just because I'm older than them? Makes very little sense. It should be due to need (child is more likely to forget to hold on, be bashed by others etc)

If a 50 or 60 year old needs to sit down then they need to book a seat. Safer to let the 6 year olds sit down rather than them being squashed or in the way.

And where are your manners giving you're refusing to give up your seat for someone who needs it more?

Serves him right for Sitting Whilst Young.

Does that mean that an elderly wouldn’t just need to stand, as they don’t pay?

This is seriously a rule from a darker age. If I’m travelling alone with my 1 year old and 4 year old, and the train is busy, what am I supposed to do? Sit with both on my lap? Lol

By your own admission you don't have kids so don't realise how vulnerable they are but seem to think 50 is over the hill.

You do realise that some 50 year olds may well be parents to 5 or 6 year old children.
Mum 50, Dad 60, and there 6 yo get on the bus, one seat left, who gets the seat?

Yes, because they are travelling for free and therefore not entitled to a seat of their own. If you want them to remain in a seat regardless of how busy the train is you need to buy them tickets.

Agree that it's a very impractical rule. What if you've got multiple small children? Do they all go on your lap. Pretty poor form for an adult capable of standing to expect some poor parent to be squashed by multiple children.

So if you've paid, you should get a seat?
Erm - tell that to every commuter on the tube / people coming into London from the suburbs.
Generally speaking you're not paying for a seat; you're paying (or not) for travel.
I have a 5 and 7 year old. Even now, if I get them on the train (yes, sometimes even during rush hour....), a lot of the time other people will stand for them. Generally I'll say no, or if they insist I'll get them to squish up on one seat.
My point is that for every person who looks at kids sitting down and is horrified, there's someone else who thinks, "those little kids can have my seat".

By that logic apparent accompanying adult using their lap should also pay a reduced price or be able to choose a single or slightly inflated fare of they are happy to have a child on the lap.