Cyclists who act like they own the road should pay towards it

[dreamingofsun]

So cyclists get priority on the roads, and are happy to ride two abreast so they hold all the car traffic up. Shouldnt they at least pay towards the upkeep of the road?

That’s everyones individual choice.

It’s the motorists who are complaining though.

If you weren't in a car, you wouldn't be being held up by a cyclist, would you? Nor would you be stuck in congestion.

There are no unnecessary car journeys. People use cars to take them wherever they want to go.

Why, cycling is not a proper form of transport. If it was then nobody would drive.

The winding country road I go down for most of my journey to work is definitely not a modern road. Beyond a dotted white line there's not a lot of markings either. The speed limit did have to be cut though, because of dangerous driving. Not that the new limit gets followed, I can't wait for Intelligent Speed Assistance (already fitted to all new cars) to be widespread.

We don't have the same climate or indeed topography or infrastructure as the Netherlands.

You might as well say that they ride camels in some other countries, so we should all go out and get a camel.

Most car journeys are unnecessary. 72% of trips are less than 5 miles. 25% are less than 1 mile.

The same applies to bikes. So you admit cycling journeys are necessary.

Anyone cycling to work is undertaking a necessary journey. HTH.

And what is a "necessary" journey, anyway? Is someone driving to the beach to have a picnic pointless and unnecessary? Because it is, by your definition.

How is it "not a proper form of transport"? It gets me to work and back again. It gets me to the shops, and gets a 25kg sack of spuds back again.

@onefinemess

What's so different between the Dutch climate and ours?

I'll give you the less than a mile. I work a mile from home and walk to/from work every day. I also walk to our local convenience store (a garage) for bread/milk, etc.

What I hate to see is my neighbours who drive to the convenience store, literally within sight of our houses, there and back in a couple of minutes. Just so lazy! And the stupid mare across the road who does it several times when she's preparing for a party etc - she's in and out like a bloody yo-yo, clearly realising she's not got things and instead of going once (which would be bad enough) she's so disorganised, she can come and go 4 or 5 times within an hour or so, each time bringing just one item back with her!

I think more than a mile, and walking/cycling is more problematic, especially if you have young children in tow, or are disabled, or there isn't a safe pavement/footpath, or in the dark etc (due to poor street lighting in lots of places). Especially outside the major cities where public transport is poor or non existent.

It rains in Amsterdam on 133 days of the year, totalling 838mm. In London it rains on 114 days, totalling 628mm. That's right, Amsterdam is wetter than London. Before you point out that not all of the UK is in the South East (tell me about it, I'm in North Wales), I'll tell you that it rains in Manchester on 143 days, totalling 828mm. So Amsterdam isn't really any drier than Manchester. Amsterdam is close to the North Sea and hence very windy - anyone who actually cycles will tell you that the wind is what makes it hard work.

Topography? A ten mile ride across central London will range between 2-26m above sea level, cumulatively climbing 38m and descending 43m. Hardly a mountain (by the way, the Swiss often cycle too). Similar differences in height in Manchester.

Infrastructure? You'll not find any cyclist on here arguing against better infrastructure (we want proper, grade-separated paths, not a painted line in the gutter or a "shared space"). The Jeremy Clarksons of this world will squeal about it though. Several of the Cycleways in London didn't get built because of opposition from the boroughs.

Slightly warmer summers and slightly colder winters, but the most important difference is that it's drier, Summer and Winter, less rainfall.

It's also obviously a hell of a lot flatter.

There's a reason we don't grow miles and miles of tulip fields in the UK to the extent that they do in Holland!

@DdraigGoch what is your suggestion for those who can't cycle? Stay at home? Or those who can't cycle the entire length of their desired journey? Again, stay at home?

We may have cross-posted but I've just checked the statistics and the Netherlands is wetter on average than the UK.

You're allowed to pass at speeds under 10mph regardless of lines

If driving were banned in urban areas you mean?

Blue badges and vehicles being used commercially would have permits. Urban areas usually have adequate public transport (even my Welsh village gets two buses an hour, with another four stopping a 10 minute walk away).

What is your suggestion for those who can't drive or afford a car?

So it actually rains more in the Netherlands than in the UK?!

You're not made of sugar!

You are right @Kazzyhoward that not everyone can cycle or walk at all, and many, probably most, people would find it difficult to do so for absolutely every journey. But lots of people could travel more actively, and many of the reasons that you cite as reasons why they don't, need to be tackled rather than used as justification for continued car use.
I live in a rural area with no public transport at all. We used to have one bus on a Wednesday morning but even that has been stopped now. I wouldn't like to be without my car altogether that is true, but actually a lot of my journeys can be done by bike or on foot if I am willing to make the effort. I'm retired now but when I was working I used to cycle the 10 miles to work (mainly on a cycle path before onefinemess gets upset) at least half the week year round. I can cycle or walk to most of my friends and local facilities like the post office or village hall which are within 4 miles of my house. I didn't always do so, it's taken a conscious effort over a number of years to change my reliance on my car, but it is better for me, better for the environment and saves me money. And it's better for my car too which still gets used for longer journeys but not short ones unless the weather is really awful or speed is crucial - repeated short journeys are not good for cars at all I'm told.
Of course infrastructure for active travel needs to be improved but I think that will come in time if people demonstrate the need. We tend to assume that it was always better in other countries but that isn't the case, so there is no reason why things can't improve in the UK too.

@DdraigGoch two buses an hour? And we wonder why this country has a productivity problem.

Presumably these buses don't run 24/7 or go everywhere you might want to go. The other buses 10 mins walk away may not be accessible either because some people can't walk for 10 minutes or because buses don't always have adequate space for pram and wheelchair users.

@DatumTarum use public transport where possible. Car share & car pools can also help where public transport isn't available (as it isn't in so many places / on so many routes).

Public transport is expensive and doesn't go where I need to go and I have no desire to beg for lifts all the time.

I have a cargo bike which can take both child and a load of stuff. I don't need a car, I need drivers to obey the law.

@DdraigGoch the fact a journey is under a mile doesn’t mean it is unnecessary to do it in a car. The fact it is under 5 miles certainly doesn’t. Some journeys people are just being lazy, but plenty of short journeys are done in cars for good reason.