Crafters, if you copy someone's design that you've seen online you're not just a CF, you're a thief.

[ThingsBeingVarious]

I have a small, successful craft business and mostly sell online, which means there are loads of photographs of my work for anyone to see. Yet again I've just been made aware of someone copying my original design and selling the product - she probably thinks it's okay because she's raising money for her local charity. And sometimes my 'followers' and customers will send me a photo of the copy they've made saying I've 'inspired them'.

I know people often say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but it really fucks me off. People should think up their own designs, not scroll through Pinterest or Etsy or wherever looking for ideas to nick. Or if they haven't got any original ideas they can BUY patterns from other crafter's.

You can't protect an idea just the expression of an idea. If, as is said upthread, someone copies the thing but then changes a part of it so as to appear slightly different to the original thing then there's not much you can do.

With lawyers and ££ behind you you can go after the copiers who haven't tweaked enough but in the real world if you are not a big company you'd have to ask yourself whether it was worth it. Most things have a value tied to the brand they come from as much as for what they are. I'd focus on making sure your brand is one people look out for as a maker of quality.

Say I want to make a kangaroo (I've never made a kangaroo!). I don't scroll through Pinterest looking for the most appealing kangaroo then just try to copy that. I would look at images of real kangaroos

But photographs are afforded copyright protection under UK law. Unless you took those photographs yourself or you have the permission of the photographer to use their work for commercial purposes, then how is it really any different from being inspired by photos of someone's kangaroo amigurumi?

I sell personalised pictures on FB. I had a buyer who had bought a few pics from me who then decided this is easy - I'll do it myself. He set up a FB selling page and posted photos of MY pics that he'd bought and passed them off as his own. I posted a comment on his selling page - he quickly removed them. He's not the only one - it's happened a few times, and I always call them out.

I think it is a real pity the op is muddying the waters between serious infringement and personal use copies. In the first the creator really does lose out, when someone copies an idea and actually makes money off it, such that the nobody is going to want to buy the creator’s original version when you can get a mass market one cheaper. This is a proper problem for independent makers, and it is a great shame there is so little protection against it, and when you have a situation where small makers aren’t protected from blatant illegal rip offs because the bigger companies have deeper pockets to pay lawyers, the law is not working as it should and it is a scandal. It’s equally unacceptable if small scale makers copy your work and you are forced to compete with them even though it was you that did all the development.

But someone wanting to make their own kangaroo for fun, their skills are in making rather than design and they love your version so much they copy it rather than get one from a book - seriously, that bothers you? You haven’t lost anything because buying a kangaroo isn’t what they wanted to do in the first place, they wanted to make one.

I wonder what the different YABU/YANBU percentages would be if you had posed the two questions separately. My guess is if you had asked ‘AIBU to not want people to rip off my creation and sell it?’ you would have far more than 60% of posters on your side. ‘AIBU to think nobody should ever copy work even in private because they should be using their own creativity?’, not so much.

Say I want to make a kangaroo (I've never made a kangaroo!). I don't scroll through Pinterest looking for the most appealing kangaroo then just try to copy that. I would look at images of real kangaroos, notice their shape, expressions, colours, the way they stand and move, make a few sketches and work out what position and size would work best in the medium I use

that's because you're an artist with a level of training and expertise that most people don't have. Most people into a bit of art/craft as a hobby don't have that level of skill.

We don't know if he/r designs are original or not

As (at this point of your post) yet, s/he hasn't shared what they are

Could be amazing and original or (based on probability) not that original and based on/inspired by someone else

@killim and @My3dahliasarebloominlovely how awful.

@GeekyThings my work is 3D not 2D however I suspect there are artists who's image of a kangaroo would be instantly recognisable as their work and so anybody else replicating that would be breaching the artists copyright.

I take your point that having given a free tutorial could be taken as giving permission to use my technique to copy any of the other items I make. But the thing that people seem to want to copy (my most popular and expensive item) is far more complex and detailed - my tutorial was for my simplest product, tbh I think a child could make that, whereas the thing people send me pics of is almost always a really, really poor imitation - they use the similar embellishments and try to capture the style but can't crack the method or, usually, source the materials I use. So they ask for advice on how to make it more accurate!

But the photo I was sent last night was from a really skilled crafter (in a different craft) who had bought my product seemingly in order to work out how to copy it. That really pissed me off, especially as I admired her own work. Though now I'm thinking she has probably copied that too.

I’m guessing it’s Amigurumi or something fibre arts.

The thing with the personal use argument.

I reckon in most cases it’s not taking money away from the original seller. I have a Cricut. Sometimes I’ll see, for example a tshirt or a water bottle. Love the design, happen to have the right vinyl, make it for myself. Or maybe I just want to try out the technique for myself.

Would I actually buy it? No. I was never going to buy it. I’ve made it because I’ve either already had the stuff, or because I want to try a new technique to increase my own skill set.

Again I think there’s a distinction to be made with the pictures you get sent depending on why they are sending them… people expecting a free tutorial from you on how to improve their copies are indeed CFs. Even if for personal use, because it’s not your job to give free crafting advice. But if it’s ‘I loved your kangaroo so much I made a little friend for him, thought you might like to see it!’ - would you really object to that?!

But where are you getting the images of real kangaroos? Someone else's work

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel aye you're right about the voting. And tbh I was particularly wound up last night because of the photo I'd been sent that they told me they were selling 'for charity'. In reality I do try and ignore that people will be copying my work as their hobby crafting, until they demand a pattern or ask for advice on how to fix some problem they've come up against - then I tell them firmly that my work is protected by copyright.

But I still think that as patterns and tutorials or kits can be bought for most things online people should not be freeloaders.

What's fibre arts?

Ffs op what is that you actually make?

Hate threads like this where the op wont share meaning we lose all bloody context!!

Just to be clear, I have not, nor will ever, make a kangaroo amigurumi. Nor any other kind of 🦘🦘🦘

Kangaroos are utterly terrifying to be honest.

I'm guessing amigurumi too. There are a couple of crafters I follow whose work is very distinctive and I'd know, for example, 1 ladies' bunnies anywhere!

I was going to say yabu but if someone is selling the copied product for profit then hell yeah YANBU

What, and risk 59% of posters copying my work?
Seriously, I'm not going to say what my craft business is as that would be totally outing - not paranoid outing like 'my DP's hobby' but genuinely outing. It is that unique! Mumsnet is anonymous for good reason and I name-changed for this post so as not to link to other areas of my life.

@ThingsBeingVarious not your page just the type of craft ffs 🤦‍♀️

I'm pretty sure no one here is going to copy your incredibly unique and super special talent

Unless those patterns you use come with a commercial license, you should not be making money from them

OP it's going to be a constant source of worry for you, you do realise that anyone who visits your website or sees your stuff at a craft fair can copy it if they are so inclined? You do sound super paranoid and I say that as a crafter of over 30 years selling my work.
Maybe you would get a few sales if you linked your work. But it sounds as if your paranoia outweighs anything else, sorry.

If you name changed for this thread it's not outing.

Also if it's that easy to copy that 59% of us can do it, maybe make it a bit harder

I genuinely was thinking I'd buy one to help her out if she linked because my cousin got ripped off by shein and it destroyed her business. I would have liked to help.

Without knowing what it is we only have your word for it that it's unique. Tbh I very much doubt it is.