AIBU to expect landlord to replace kitchen?

[MiceProblems]

We got the keys to a rented property on the 11th July, and haven't yet been able to move in, the main reason (among several) is we've discovered a mouse infestation in the kitchen.

The inside of the kitchen cabinets and drawers are saturated with mice droppings and urine, so much so that the laminated cover is peeling up from the corners from clearly being repeatedly peed on. There was also a nest in the far corner of a cupboard where a bag of old rice had been left over, with thousands of mice droppings and chewed up plastic and paper surrounding it.

The EA's maintenance team has been out to put down rat poison (they put it outside the property, just sprinkled it around the perimeter? I did knock on the neighbours who I'm aware have cats to let them know this!). They've said they'll be back this Thursday to assess and they'll be replacing a brick vent which is the suspected entry point. All fine, I suppose, it is what it is.

Here's the problem, I now really don't want to use the cupboards/drawers to store my plates and cutlery and whatnot. If it was one or two mice and their urine hadn't soaked into the chipwood beneath, then fine, I'd give it a good bleach and get on with it. But knowing there have been a whole family of mice living there at some point, and the soft wood beneath the laminated part has pee soaked into it?! I want it replaced!
I don't know how long the mice have been there, as I discovered some plastic bags bunched up and stuffed into holes behind the sink, presumably put there by the previous occupant to keep the rodents out, and I'm aware the house had been vacant for at least 4 months before I went for it.
The landlord of the property is flatly refusing to replace anything and has said it's fine and isn't an issue in his opinion. EA have said they do agree with me, however they can't go against the LLs wishes.
He's (LL) offered a £200 reduction in our first months rent (for the unrelated fact the kitchen is covered is grease and grime) as his contribution to a professional cleaner, which IMO should have already been sorted prior to letting the property, so we're not really getting any special discount with that.

What the fuck do I do?! Is this allowed? Is there somebody I can contact? I just want to bloody move into the house that I've had the keys for for 3 weeks without the kitchen being soaked in mouse piss!

What a nightmare OP! Please keep us updated, really hoping this landlord gets a well overdue wake up call xx

"We do want to move in, yeah. It's the ideal location for school and work, and we've been looking for a really really long time for something that ticks these boxes to come up, so it would be really frustrating if we had to let it go."

I'm going to be blunt - stop being blinkered and LET THIS HOUSE GO. It isn't worth the hassle. It may be a good property in theory, but I am 99% that renting a filthy house from landlord who clearly doesn't care one drop about his property or his tenants is going to be an expensive nightmare. I suspect that a landlord who will let a house that filthy, will also have other things in disrepair, and won't think twice about not fixing essential things fast. Yes legally you should always have running water, heating in winter etc, but when you are freezing, and have to wash your kids in cold water and pay for a laundrette, I'm not sure that the idea that you can sue the pants off your landlord and win is going to be much comfort.

I doubt the kitchen would be replaced because of a mice infestation. But the landlord should pay for a deep clean. It should have been done before you moved in.

Definitely press to be refunded for the carpets, OP. Don't just write that money off.

You’re right to have decided not to love in - the LL sounds like a nightmare

at the very least you need to get back the rent paid on the grounds that the house was offered in an unacceptable state

We went through this with our first (and only) rental. When we looked around the previous tenants were still there so I didn't feel I could start going through the cupboards. As soon as we moved in I found the droppings in the kitchen cupboards. Rather naively, I said "oh I think we have a mouse". We managed to catch 5 ourselves while we went back and forth with the agent, who would send out pest control over and over. The man that came out said I was wasting my time as it was often hard to eliminate. At this this point I'd had enough. We'd just had a baby and I was concerned about us all getting ill. I sent a lengthy e-mail to the letting agent detailing what we'd had to put up with and said I'd be speaking with environmental health. Within 24 hours they sent out the manager from the pest control company who took out the kick boards and found a huge hole into the wall cavity. At that point they decided the only way to stop it was to smash the kitchen out, fill the hole in the wall and any small holes with steel wool (which apparently they won't chew) and then put a new kitchen in. It took months, they stacked heavy boxes dangerously in the lounge (it was a tiny bungalow and our baby was starting to walk) and then when they were done the landlord stuck the rent up by £100. It doesn't sound like much by today's standards but it pretty much took us to the limit.

When I asked why I was told we should be grateful as we had a brand new kitchen. I was so glad when we finally moved out and got our own place. After cleaning the bungalow when we left and seeing how thoroughly awkward they were about trying to keep our deposit I don't believe for one second they weren't aware of the mice before we moved in.

My advice is if possible find somewhere else. If not this will become your problem for months on end and the conclusion may be that you end up paying for the new kitchen in a rent increase down the line. Just save yourself the stress and hassle of it all.

I see a lot of pp mentioning safety certificates, but I'd also like to add that with rodent infestation I would absolutley want a proper and full electric check completed. Mice love insulation cable plastic and chew through electric cables quite happily.

I know you are rejecting the house now, but just wanting to add another reason why this is a good idea.

You need proper advice to get your money back and let this go. If your landlord is this uncaring about his property before you move in he will be worse when you do. And he'll try and keep your deposit.

I would honestly stay where you are and let this one go. If the LL is not going to take this seriously, what happens next time something goes wrong or you uncover even more issues when you move in?

I do think a whole new kitchen is a bit unreasonable as that will cost £1000s but if the owner is a good LL, the very least they can do is ask a carpenter to take a look and repair/replace the badly damaged areas. Once the entry points are sealed and the house is given a proper industrial clean, you might feel better about it.

But the issue remains that if anything else goes wrong you might have an ongoing fight on your hands with the landlord and that is very stressful, probably more stressful than living in your current property.

I get very irritated by irresponsible landlords.

Then you’re also disgusting, expecting tenants to use piss soaked kitchen drawers - would you?! Mouse piss is dangerous FFS, you can go blind from it, and you think a landlord has every right to expect full rent when letting a property in such a dangerous condition?! I only hope you’re not really a landlord.

OP, speak to citizens Advice and get legal help. I wouldn’t move in (and like hell would I pay anything for that first month when you couldn’t even live there), the landlord is clearly shit, and you’ll be signing up to problem after problem with him.

Sorry but there no way I'd accept this. If he's being so unreasonable about something like this image trying to get him to do anything in the future. I'd be handing back the keys.

Naunet Landlord here too and absolutely agree with you - no way would I expect a tenant to live with a urine soaked kitchen. I would never have let an infestation got that far. I doubt very much if VanCleefArpels would live with the same.

https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/complaints

if you can be bothered , given all stress you’ve had

id also be reporting the property managers to their professional body and the same council route- they have a duty to ensure they lease a house that is fit for human inhabitants

Find somewhere else to live, this landlord will be a nightmare. Request your money back for the time you weren't able to move in and your deposit since you never got to live in it and run.

We own a rental property and I would 100% replace the kitchen. We don’t have a huge portfolio just the one house and I take pride it it looking nice. We’ve recently refurbished the whole house, new flooring and carpets everywhere, re done the back garden, new bathroom as the last tenant was there nearly 10 years . It makes me mad it gives good landlords a bad name.

https://www.rentokil.co.uk/rodents/rodent-borne-diseases/?_its=JTdCJTIydmlkJTIyJTNBJTIyM2RlMGNiZDEtOTA4OS00MWY1LTg1ZWMtYjRlYzVjYWNmOTZhJTIyJTJDJTIyc3RhdGUlMjIlM0ElMjJybHR%2BMTY5MTMxNjg5MH5sYW5kfjJfNzk3Nzhfc2VvXzc0ZjM3NDMwMGY0ZGQzYjFjMjUxM2Q5MDdjOWExNWNhJTIyJTJDJTIyc2l0ZUlkJTIyJTNBMTAzODUlN0Q%3D

for all saying a quick thorough clean will do.
Nope. It can takes weeks to deinfest a home, mice live in the walls. I was told that a mouse can squeeze through a hole the size of a pencil width- it’s only limited by size of their skull and that’s tiny. To eradicate an infestation and prevent it happening by sealing all holes this size is a major piece of work. The kitchen would need to be ripped out to do it anyway

this is a long term build up by pictures shown. The landlord and agents MUST have known and leased you property in that state in a way that was misrepresenting the property and a complete disregard for H&S

Sorry OP, you’re now back to start, but you’d have never have sorted this and it’s best. In future you’ll be wiser, sadly, to check in all cupboard and insist on seeing right into backs of all cupboards etc . Don’t ever take a property on that’s dirty , even if you think you can clean it. It’s not your job to clean someone else’s mess. The landlord should have the house in tip top clean condition, and if it isn’t walk away as they’re just a profit making piss taker who’ll cause you a lot of expensive and frustrating problems.

@MiceProblems make sure you lift your new carpets and take them with you. Ok, they might not fit in your next property, but I’d be buggered if I’d leave them for your slumlord to use to his advantage.

As pps have said, this is illegal and very dangerous. I would tell them they have to clean it up, they could be killing birds, pets etc. it has to be in a bait box.
Also it is totally useless for the mice as they are House Mice indoors !

I would expect a refund of the rent for the period you haven’t been able to move in, perhaps only when EA have being doing their work as the rest is your choice, and also for the landlord to pay out of pocket for a complete full deep clean not reduce your rent for the month. Some deep cleans can cost more than £200. I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to expect the landlord to replace the base units.

Also the poison isn’t a permanent solution, it’s incredibly difficult to get rid of a mouse infestation once it’s established. I would want a contract written up to make sure at the first sign of mice again the landlord has to organise treatment once again within 48 hrs at their expense. Mice, and their droppings are a massive health risk and the landlord can face serious fines from environmental health if it’s not dealt with properly. Potentially even prevented from renting the place out until it is fully resolved.

It should be at the landlords expense because they are the one renting the property out, which it has to be in a reasonable state to do so legally and they receiving rent for this. If the property is mortgaged then the mortgage provider will also require a buffer amount above the cost of the mortgage amount to account for repairs as well as full landlord insurance which in some cases covers vermin infestations and the associated damages.

If it’s a reasonably cheap kitchen anyway (like base units and doors etc not replacing the worktops) it’s actually not that expensive to replace. People saying oh it’ll be £5k minimum 🙄 a normal base unit is about £40-60 at b&q or similar and doors could potentially be re used or replaced for £30 ish. Assuming it’s not a HUGE kitchen (average is about 8 60cm units in the UK I think) so you’re talking £400-500. The base unit will be screwed into the worktop in the roof of it, unscrew, adjust feet down. slide out. Replace. Not ridiculous seeing as this landlord has obviously ignored the problem for some time. But again if they have the proper landlord insurance that they are legally obliged to have then some have cover for vermin.

In the meantime perhaps steam clean the cupboards as this should kill any bacteria, clean insides with bleach as best you can and store things in plastic boxes with lids you can slide out.

I think most people would agree that a pre-existing vermin problem makes a place not fit for renting out and uninhabitable until it is resolved. They haven’t met their contractual obligations to provide a safe and habitable home. You should be getting all of your rent payments back, and all your deposit (and maybe the agency costs too).

if the LL won’t do that, you can threaten legal action for breach of contract. They have entered into the lease knowing the state of the property.

It sounds like they might also have not met their gas safety obligations, and if so, that strengthens your case. In my last annual gas check, one of the four gas burners was seized up and wouldn’t give out gas, and that meant it failed the test and the whole hob got replaced. If yours doesn’t give out gas on three burners, it surely couldn’t have passed. The gas test needs to be done by a Gas Safe registered engineer. https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/

Don't let them walk away with your money.

The landlord and agent should be ashamed. I had issues with a very expensive rental , leaking guttering, mould, dry rot (the stairs calapsed!) when we left the LL stated we climbed on the roof and pulled his gutting off! He was a nightmare from day one and became a fully fledged stalker. Every maintaince call was ignored until he wanted to sell in Covid. My shielding DD was verbally abused. Don't think he will suddenly become Lord Cadbury, he's a shit and you know it. Anywhere else must be better.

Fuck that, seriously. Tell the agent you will not pay them a penny unless the house is professionally cleaned and kitchen cupboards replaced. Take pictures of all the damage.

I would seriously consider terminating the contract and finding somewhere else though because this landlord is very clearly a fucking gangster and I would not trust him to adequately maintain the property during tenancy.

What cheeky fuckers they are.

I see that you have decided not to take the house. I hope you get all your money back as the landlord has frustrated the contract by not providing a habitable home and broke the law by not having the gas appliances checked by a qualified person and providing you with the certificate.

If you do decide to take the property and especially if you do anything like make good the kitchen at your own expense ask for the landlord to provide a longer term tenancy contract e.g. 5 years with fixed rent (with break clauses where you can give notice but not the landlord) as you don't want to be paying out/,getting on top of the infestation just in time to be asked to leave.

@VanCleefArpels you missed tge bit about the cooker not working either!

I'm no expert on this at all @MiceProblems but if the house is not habitable, then you shouldn't be forced to pay rent. The LL is behaving very badly - I don't kniw if they are contravening a provision of law or disallowing you a right as a tenant, but they're sailing close to the wind imo.

Once you've spoken to tge local authority for advice - env health may visit the property, you'll be better armed to negotiate. The EA should be making sure the LL is legally compliant. You can put a written claim in too for the inconvenience abd dact that the cooker was not checked and mouse infestation meaning when they rented you the property it was not habitable.

Once you do move in, Cost up wrapping the kitchen cabinets. You can wrap it yourself - fiddley but def worth it to know its clean for your plates etc.

I once lived in a house a father rented out. It had mice. My flatmate or her mate raided my food cupboard one Xmas whilst I was away and left it open. I had to throw everything out and wash all my stuff. I never ate there again and left pretty soon afterwards tbh. Even the farm cats couldn't stay on top of the mice infestation! Good luck.

As someone who bought a house with a rodent infestation….no, this is totally reasonable. The urine soaks into the chipboard, no amount of bleach makes these cupboards useable. Depending on size of kitchen replacing cupboards may not be expensive but shouldn’t be your problem.

also - as others have said, you need to get the kitchen electrics checked. Mice love cables!

and what you can see is probably the tip of the iceberg, there will be more. And rats???

Finally also totally reasonable not to have picked up on this. The smell only “comes out” once the other people have moved out and it’s obvious, and you can’t go rooting in other peoples cupboards at a viewing.

good luck, your landlord deserves some legal action!