AIBU to expect landlord to replace kitchen?

[MiceProblems]

We got the keys to a rented property on the 11th July, and haven't yet been able to move in, the main reason (among several) is we've discovered a mouse infestation in the kitchen.

The inside of the kitchen cabinets and drawers are saturated with mice droppings and urine, so much so that the laminated cover is peeling up from the corners from clearly being repeatedly peed on. There was also a nest in the far corner of a cupboard where a bag of old rice had been left over, with thousands of mice droppings and chewed up plastic and paper surrounding it.

The EA's maintenance team has been out to put down rat poison (they put it outside the property, just sprinkled it around the perimeter? I did knock on the neighbours who I'm aware have cats to let them know this!). They've said they'll be back this Thursday to assess and they'll be replacing a brick vent which is the suspected entry point. All fine, I suppose, it is what it is.

Here's the problem, I now really don't want to use the cupboards/drawers to store my plates and cutlery and whatnot. If it was one or two mice and their urine hadn't soaked into the chipwood beneath, then fine, I'd give it a good bleach and get on with it. But knowing there have been a whole family of mice living there at some point, and the soft wood beneath the laminated part has pee soaked into it?! I want it replaced!
I don't know how long the mice have been there, as I discovered some plastic bags bunched up and stuffed into holes behind the sink, presumably put there by the previous occupant to keep the rodents out, and I'm aware the house had been vacant for at least 4 months before I went for it.
The landlord of the property is flatly refusing to replace anything and has said it's fine and isn't an issue in his opinion. EA have said they do agree with me, however they can't go against the LLs wishes.
He's (LL) offered a £200 reduction in our first months rent (for the unrelated fact the kitchen is covered is grease and grime) as his contribution to a professional cleaner, which IMO should have already been sorted prior to letting the property, so we're not really getting any special discount with that.

What the fuck do I do?! Is this allowed? Is there somebody I can contact? I just want to bloody move into the house that I've had the keys for for 3 weeks without the kitchen being soaked in mouse piss!

Pest control and deep clean irrespective of mice

we’ve had mice at home and certainly didn’t replace anything deep cleaned it

@mrsm43s

no amount if 'deep cleaning' is going to remove 'mouse piss' that's soaked into kitchen cabinets.

@MiceProblems you need to contact the council private housing oeopke and environmental health.

£200 towards cleaning? He's having a fucking laugh.

The cabinets need replacing. It's not that expensive for an inexpensive kitchen. Not ideal and he'd be better off putting in a better quality kitchen, but to have cabinets replaced really isn't that expensive!

he's going to be a fucking nightmare though. I'd rather not move in at all, BUT I know the housing market is dire at the moment 🥹

Something very similar happened with my DD Op. In the end, the landlord provided 2 professional cleaners, they turned up the same day. Have to say that this was just the first of many many issues that my DD and her friends had with the landlord.

And I think that the professional cleaners cost around £900 😲. They did have to clean the whole 3 bedroomed flat including the fridge, washing machine etc.

Call environmental health. Have you paid disposit or rent. .. talk to cab. Find somewhere else... landlord sounds awful

I’m a landlord. It’s dreadful behaviour from
him, and it’s probably not the only issue with the property and he isn’t going to sort it. I would get out of the contract and keep looking-you rent from him at your peril.

Whether I would completely replace a kitchen I’m not sure, but repairs should be adequate and there is no way a clean is enough.

Have you been served all the relevant docs? Is the rest of the property safe? Gas and Elec etc?

My BTL has a tired kitchen and bathroom, but my tenants don’t want the disruption so it stays as it is. But it is clean, safe and functional as that is my obligation as a responsible landlord. I will likely sell when they move on but if I don’t I will refurb between tenants as then as it will really need doing. He hasn’t bothered to do the bare minimum.

Are those urine soaked cupboards still strong enough to support reasonable weights of kitchenware, food etc for which they are intended ? If not then they're potentially dangerous and I'm guessing the LL could be sued if any harm comes to his tenants (?).

It's possible to replace the inner cupboards as necessary and reuse the doors, far cheaper and quicker as you can pick the inners up in wickes. The landlord should be reimbursing for the weeks you haven't been able to move in

Nope, the existing mdf is soaked in mouse urine. That is not going away.

How would I go about getting the LL to agree to reimbursing the first months rent?

I did write an email to the EA at the end of last week asking for a significant reduction in rent this month due to the mice and the hob, and being generally unable to use the kitchen. The LL told them to just respond with, essentially, "no, maintenance sorted it out quickly, will contribute £200 towards the cost of cleaning".
I first mentioned to them that the hob didn't work and that I'd discovered mice droppings on day 1, the very first day I held the keys. The hob wasn't replaced until week 2, mice poison went down this Monday.
The rent is £950 per month and we haven't stayed a single night there!

Is simply hand the keys back in.

Talk to these people. They hold the legal aid housing contract for the north west and they really helped me get our landlord to stop being a massive prick. The website is shocking but they're a really good firm and if you're eligible for legal aid it won't cost you anything. X www.wtbsolicitors.com/services/housing-law/

Honestly, we're really thinking about it. We're going to discuss tonight once the kids are in bed. It's just been so so difficult to find anywhere in the location we need and the size we need. It took us close to 2 years to find this property (we did go for another one around 8 months ago, but the application fell through). It was really ideal until this.

It's stressing me out so badly, we either give the keys back and stay where we are currently which we desperately need out of, or accept we're going to have a pain in the arse landlord for 12 months 😞

Just a small suggestion from me.

If you decide to move in and some of the cupboards are not as bad (I.e. not soaked in piss, but you feel uncomfortable using them) you could buy an off cut of vinyl flooring and cut to fit the drawers and shelves. It would give you a clean surface for your stuff and easy to diy rather than paying a carpenter.

but replacing cupboards is expecting too much.

I disagree and new basic (and I mean basic, but clean and hygienic) kitchen units are not expensive; there are also some unit kitchen type things that can help. An infestation is going to have made an appalling mess that even professional deep cleaning alone may not fix, but a professional very deep clean by specialists should be done once the infestation has been dealt with properly, of course at the landlord's expense, and anything else that ought to be fixed should be fixed by them likewise. Have they got all their certificates? I'd be very worried about boiler safety and cover with a landlord like this, for example.

I agree about Shelter, Environment Health and so on. Really though, this might not be the right property for you as the landlord IS going to be a nightmare. Obviously. And of course you should definitely not be paying rent while this property isn't fit for habitation.

If it were me and I still wanted to move in due to practicality, I would push to get the landlord to sort out as much as possible and then do the rest myself. I'd definitely make sure the infestation was dealt with, and pay for a specialist deep clean. Then I wouldn't use any really bad cupboards at all. I'd use the ones I could rescue for non-food household item storage, and I'd use some temporary storage either in the kitchen or elsewhere in the house (yes, mouseproof!) to store my actual food. I've lived in some fairly grim places in my time with some annoying landlords but nothing like that! I'm also a certified landlord in the part of the UK where you have to do this.

Have you definitely got all the safety certificates?

The LL sounds like a nightmare in respect of the responses, and I would agree with others about whether you can either get out of the contract or have rent refunded if the property is genuinely unliveable. However depending on the type of property you're moving to, mice not be that unusual. Modern houses I'd not be happy, but in older terraces it's pretty common. If the property has been empty for a while or if there's some issues with neighbours/takeaways/alleys etc, more common. I've lived in plenty of rented old town houses in NW cities and mice were just something you had to deal with, and manage by being meticulously clean so they didn't choose your house! Old houses have plenty of gaps where mice can get in, and if its part of a terrace pretty much impossible to prevent completely.

Fwiw even a basic kitchen replacement these days is hard to get for less than 10k, so asking for a new kitchen because of mice isn't realistic. Less if white goods weren't replaced, but not much less.

Mouse shit and pee inside cupboards should be simple - get rid of mice, block up holes, clean. In that regard, ll could be right (thoigh he should not be charging rebt until its done!).
if its soaked in to the point the veneer is lifted from the chipboard and the chipboard is soaked, Id suggest its either due to rats (bigger so more pee, and more inclined to chew), or dripping plumbing. Mice pee constantly (theyve not got a proper bladder), so they dont leave puddles so much as damp footprint trails. DF had mouse-infested house for years, and honestly rhe damage in your new flat doesnt sound like its just (generations of) mice.

Run. This LL is showing you what he's like.

Mice infestations are very very hard to get rid of permanently.

Here OP this is the relevant law.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-tenants-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018
I had this exact problem about 10 years ago (also NW at the time). There were even mouse droppings in the tumble dryer! At the time there was no law about this sphere of problems, but the law has now changed. Environmental Health served mandatory notices on the landlord (for fire safety breaches, nothing to do with the mice) and he had to fix things. However, he wouldn't provide alternative accommodation. I ended up just stopping paying him and sofa surfing for a year until I could get somewhere else. Obviously I can't recommend this because a different landlord might pursue you with debt collectors etc if you just stop paying rent and leave.

Oh God just seen you've got kids. Really don't subject them to a mouse/rat infested home. The pests won't go away just because some pillock scattered rat poison around the outside of the building like an occult protection circle.

Landlords are reluctant to spend money on anything, so forget a new kitchen.
As for the mice, I think you're better off finding somewhere else, and if you say no to that, then just live with it.

If you are only there for 12 months then I would not worry about kicking their arse.

Get a solicitor to email a letter to the agent claiming breach of contract. Go in heavy. Dictate what needs to be done and stick with it.

Hi @MiceProblems I’m a landlord . I think you shouldn’t be paying the rent if you can’t move due to the mice infestation. As previously mentioned, you need to speak to environmental health . Asking for a new kitchen is unreasonable, but I think you’ve got a bigger problem. Your landlord will be a nightmare.