Non religious school

[Chickenkeev]

My daughter is going into 6th class next year ( apologies, i don't know the British equivalent, but it's the last year before secondary). I'm lost as to whether i should hold out for the non religious secondary school which is the other side of the city, or just send her to one over this side that is religious. We went above and beyond to get her to non catholic primaries so it seems crap to throw that away but equally it wouldn't be great to foist a long commute on her. Help please!

@Chickenkeev And you may have missed the entire point of the thread,

No,

but there is very little choice.

There is a clear choice. You don't send her to the Catholic school where you don't trust them to educate her properly

I am asking what's best for my child, i'm not asking about the church.

But the church which you detest oversees the Catholic schools, the Council of Catholic Maintained Schools, I believe.

So as I said a no-brainer.

I know my old one unfortunately and it was vile. I really hope i don't have to inflict it on my daughter.

What point is a no brainer? Inflict a crappy commute on her, or inflict a crappy religious school? Which is worse? I don't know.

You don't have to inflict anything on your daughter.

You have a choice (I don't really know why it's so difficult) you send her to the non-faith school.

Simple.

As previously mentioned, it's quite a distance away.

what does your daughter want to do ?

@Friedgreentomatoestoo in Ireland, population 5 million there are 21 ET secondaries. So perhaps that may give the context of "choice".

@Chickenkeev have you reviewed the eligibility for the secondary. Ours is a very small area around the school. And lottery within those that meet criteria. I hope you have the choice but you may be outside criteria. They checked family members addresses very also.

I haven't, i assumed she'd be eligible as in ET primary. But prob a bit thick there. Tbh we've been really lucky with schools thus far, we're flying by the seat of our pants somewhat.

My mum has an address near the school, would that help matters?

@Chickenkeev in Ireland, population 5 million there are 21 ET secondaries. So perhaps that may give the context of "choice".

Then pull her out of the formal education system and school her at home.

You have a constitutional right to educate your child at home. The Irish Constitution recognises the family as the primary educator of the child and defines the duties and responsibilities for parents and the State in the education of children.

So don't say you have "no choice".

Aye right

@Friedgreentomatoestoo so the answer is to not expect our country to provide an education that is promised under our constitution to those of other religions or none , not good enough. My tax and others of similar belief should be sufficient to offer equivalent education choices. It is actually regular issue in the European courts of human rights.

How on earth does a parent educate and work full time to pay bills and provide the social interaction of a school 😔.

This is a right recognised by international courts.

Well, if you feel that strongly about it why are you wasting time posting here?

Form an action group of like-minded folks and lobby your political representative in order to enact change.

Chicken spent another thread pissing all over the Catholic Church and yet is now considering sending her child to a Catholic School, even though she has stated quite clearly she has no confidence in them being able to educate her properly!!

That's illogical and hypocrisy with a humungous 'H'.

Moving is neither cheap, nor easy, but it seems to be the obvious solution. I would take dramatic steps to minimize religious education as fact.

I did that. And i was part of an ET start up group in my new area. I did the hard yards. But it shouldn't be neccessary. Education should be accessible to all. Religion shouldn't come into it.

Is your preferred choice of Educate Together actually non-faith or are these schools multi-denominational?

Either way, the fact is, at second level the majority of Ireland's schools aren't single faith schools at all, albeit by a small margin. So less than 50% of secondary schools are Catholic or other single- faith schools. The others generally cater to all faiths snd none.

It's quite different to the situation at primary school level where about 89% are Catholic.

Oh I agree you shouldn’t have to move. I find it utterly appalling that there is no real choice to educate children away from religion.

I am in Ireland and I would send her to the Catholic school. I understand your experience but at secondary it's less in your face..no communion or confirmation. I'll be sending my wee boy to one,our mixed school is over 25 mins away. The whole street goes to it he would be the odd one out

Has the school you went to changed much since you attended it? Have you visited recently? Is there a new principal etc?

The number of nuns or brothers in religious schools in Ireland has decreased hugely over the past few decades. When I attended our local school the principal was a nun and so were many of my teachers. Today the principal and vast majority of teachers in that school are lay people. They may be Catholic but, like a lot of Irish people now, many are probably not very religious really. More culturally Catholic as the expression goes.

That will have made a difference to the school. It may not be the same place you experienced.

in Ireland, population 5 million there are 21 ET secondaries. So perhaps that may give the context of "choice".

@Marblessolveeverything
But ET schools aren't the only type of second-level school that caters to students of different faiths or no faith?
So their number is irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion - precisely because it doesn't actually give any context of the choice available.

How long is a long commute? If it's the other side of the city in Dublin versus Cork, Kilkenny, Limerick, Galway, Waterford the answer will be very different time wise. DC here went local, walking distance, that's potentially a saving of 2 hours travel time each day, getting some exercise and extra study time each day as well as getting healthy food when they get home instead of junk food on the go.

The school you went to as a teenager is not the same even if the building is unchanged. The headteacher will have retired as will most of the teachers. Even if the school was founded by nuns in the 18th, 19th or 20th century you can be almost certain that there will be no nuns teaching in the school now. The ethos of the school may still be Catholic but reflective of a modern society.

Students will study religion but not just Catholicism, they will learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Jewish and other faiths. My DC sat exams for Junior Certificate based on all faiths studied in the JC curriculum. They learned from classmates about different customs. Catholic schools are under the same pressures as any other schools in the country to maximise points at Leaving Certificate. Speaking from my own experience with my DC, there will be one annual trip to the parish church for Mass, and one just for Leaving Cert graduation. There may be a quick prayer at the start of the day, students may be expected to stand but remain respectfully silent if they so wish.

History, science and art will be taught from the national curriculum just as they would be in an Educate Together school. This was how it was for me back in the last century too. My biology teacher was a nun, a very gentle soul, and she had no problem teaching us about human reproduction including the male and female reproductive organs which is the basis of me being gender critical today. (Trans identified males are still men.) All the books for these subjects will probably be common to both faith based and Educate Together schools. I suppose that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that an art class could be tasked with producing some artwork to tie in with any event in school (such as a school musical or a harvest celebration). And the nun we had for Art had no problem showing us The Birth of Venus painting as well as The Ardagh Chalice. Had a lay teacher for history, followed the curriculum to the letter including pre-Catholic Ireland, Bronze and Iron Age pagans and hedge schools and Catholic Emancipation.

School here produces excellent academic results, several students in the top 100 at LC this year, non-private, lots of non-Catholic children enrolled of various faiths and none. I haven't heard of any of them being converted or even being encouraged to do so.

If your DD is heading into 6th class in school in September then you really need to get your skates on, the first offers will be made then - usually firstly to qualifying primary feeder schools, then siblings etc, then gradually filtering down to out of area applicants. But you will need to apply, even if you are local you won't be guaranteed a place if the school is over-subscribed from local applicants.

You could be brave here, name your city, name your location (roughly) and name the local school. People could then give you school specific information about the current school ethos and hazard a guess as to whether the commute would be worth the trouble, are you talking one bus or two etc? See what other people with similar views to you are doing locally, there may be another school which will meet your needs better. Also, you can go to the Department of Education & Skills website and search for WSE evaluations of the schools you are considering. Talk to your neighbours with older children, what do they think of the school?

Education is accessible to all, or should be, places will be found - even the most profoundly disabled child must be accommodated, rightly. The number of Catholic schools is decreasing as schools are amalgamating and you will almost never see a Catholic-based application to run new schools - these patrons are mostly coming from ET, county ETBs, Gaelscoileanna, Le Chéile, Muslim backgrounds.

If your DD is heading into 6th class in school in September then you really need to get your skates on, the first offers will be made then - usually firstly to qualifying primary feeder schools, then siblings etc, then gradually filtering down

This probably varies by area, but where I am the deadline for admission applications is mid to late October, following school open days in early October. First offers are sometime later but certainly before Christmas iirc. Here, having a sibling in the school puts you top of the list.

Education is accessible to all, or should be, places will be found - even the most profoundly disabled child must be accommodated, rightly.

They must be, but that doesn't mean they always are. Don't get me started.

Otherwise agree with everything you say @SageRosemary