To say you shouldn't have a child to heal yourself?

[ncrelative]

NC as outing
I have a relative who has sadly had a very unfortunate life in many respects. Poor upbringing, lack of ability to do things in life, emotional problems.

She is now in a relationship and wants to have a child. She is very positive about this as a way too heal her past life and experiences as she feels others have always had a lucky life and she has always been unlucky and not had what others have. I have been extremely supportive but in our last conversation I got a bit frustrated and told her as a parent it's not how she thinks it is, it is hard work and not about healing yourself but about raising a child who needs you to be their everything.

Her partner also has issues from being abused so neither of them have experience of how to raise a healthy child.

She got really angry at this saying I was privileged to have a family and all she wants is what we all were born having.

I said it was unfair but a child isn't therapy or a healing mechanism and that it's no one's right to have a child in order to heal themselves. Further, if you have never been raised with any idea of successful parenting it isn't right to bring a helpless child into the world to potentially repeat the cycle.

(In the past she has done things like bought a 10 year old relative a range of adult nail polish for Christmas, had no idea how to cook raw chicken at 23yo and thought you could cook it in the microwave, has never babysat or had any experience)

She is extremely angry and upset with me now and predictably won't speak to me. I want to apologise if I hurt her but at the same time I can't support having a child as a kind of therapy. AIBU?

Well if she is as fragile as you suggest, such harsh judgemental comments from a supposed friend would have devastated her. Really bad behaviour on your part. What’s your mental health damage to think this kind of radical Judgemental “telling it like it is” is appropriate? Superiority complex much? If you are a friend you must walk it back and sincerely and humbly apologise.

you have no way of predicting the future and sometimes people with awful childhoods become excellent parents because they know what not to do.

OP my god can you hear yourself ?

reproduction is the means of survival for the human race. Most people do it.

leave your friend alone.

Just wanted to share my experience and give a different perspective slightly.

Despite having a successful career, wonderful husband and great family and friends (and knowing how to cook chicken and all your other criteria…), I’ve very poor mental health. Throughout pregnancy, I naively thought having our first child would complete me and give me this purpose - therefore not have the invasive thoughts I have spent many years battling with. Of course, it didn’t. In fact, despite these great relationships I have and the support I received, I found motherhood so lonely in the early days. It was one of the hardest times in my life for my mental health. I constantly compared myself to my own brilliant teenage mum who I sought daily guidance from. It didn’t come naturally to me, despite my child being born into a loving, caring and financially secure etc home.

So my point is, yes, don’t use parenthood to heal you, but also just because she doesn’t look like she’ll be a good mum on paper, she may surprise you. Equally, having the circumstances to make it easier to be a good mum in some respects doesn’t necessarily mean someone will be either - very obviously.

Fundamentally, it’s none of your business. I haven’t read the whole thread though so not sure of any other info.

I agree with most of this, however just wanted to say, the midwife doesn’t ask anything about personal history or childhood.

You’re asked about Domestic violence, as it’s a standard question, and then you’re asked if any of your children have had a social worker (which can be for many many reasons eg. You have a child with a disability)

Just didn’t want anyone with a trauma history reading this thinking their midwife was going to request info on every aspect of their childhood.

Further, if you have never been raised with any idea of successful parenting it isn't right to bring a helpless child into the world to potentially repeat the cycle.

So care leavers shouldn't be able to have children? Sounds kind of like eugenics there, stopping the riff raff from having children

Given there is a school of thought that generational trauma can be passed down in DNA OP are you even qualified to have a child. How can you be sure you haven't passed on any generational trauma

I understand your point of view OP but I think you're being unnecessarily judgemental. People have kids for all sorts of reasons and none of us know exactly what it's going to be like for us as patents before it happens. Essentially we are all being selfish in bringing a child into the world when you never really know how things will turn out for them. But without life, what else is there? None of us asked to be born but most of us are probably ok that we were.

Yes many people have less than perfect childhoods but does that mean our parents shouldn't have conceived us?

Your friend/ relative has a genuine desire for a child - her reasons are her own which she has shared. Do you know the reasons others of your acquaintance had children? Probably not in most cases.

People can overcome poor upbringing by knowing what they don't want for their child or researching parenting or seeking advice when things get tough. Not knowing that a 10 year old wouldn't normally be given nail polish just shows they haven't spent much time with girls that age recently- or rather with parents of girls that age, as I'm sure many 10 yo girls would love a set of nail polish.

Your analogy comparing her with someone who has had to give up sport due to medical issues is way off. Her life / health isn't at stake and having a child is a far more profound desire / need. Plenty of would-be professional sports people have to choose other careers for all sorts of reasons, just as others change careers too.

It would be better if you were onboard and supportive, then she may seek your advice and help.

I literally had my booking in appointment last week and there was a list of questions about domestic violence, parental mental health, abuse, substance abuse etc in the home during childhood (all the adverse childhood experiences stuff). So they do, and it was from the computer so standard.

"Further, if you have never been raised with any idea of successful parenting it isn't right to bring a helpless child into the world to potentially repeat the cycle."

I'm sorry but YABVU!!! I had a toxic, abusive childhood and it is entirely possible to break the cycle. I had a lot of therapy long before dh and kids and healed on my own. I now have 2 kids and I'm a good mum to them. They are happy, secure, well behaved children. I find your comment offensive, do you think I should never have had kids just because I was abused as a child?

OP you’ve had a tough time here. I think it’s okay to think those thoughts and concerns - we are all entitled to our opinions after all - it’s the fact that you voiced them. I have a friend in a troubling relationship and every time she falls pregnant I am secretly horrified but I keep it myself.

This is definitely new, I have 2 young kids.

It’s also incredibly questionable. ACEs were never intended to be used as a scoring tool. It’s scary that health professionals are using them in this way.

YANBU - a child shouldn't be used to make their parent feel loved or better. Or to soothe them for past traumas.

If you have a child, your job is to raise them to be an emotionally healthy adult who is equipped to live in the real world. How can you really do that if you haven't sought therapy for your own demons?

I don't think there was any scoring. I'm pretty sure the midwife prefixed it with something like they can provide support.

I also had a traumatic childhood - abuse from my dad, was pretty horrible. However I have 4 lovely healthy lads who are all lovely (2 Adults) I don’t know why you’d say that to her. Think it if you want but to actually think you’re so superior that you can say that to someone else wow!! People who had great childhoods can be crap parents or develop mental health issues and struggle. Good parenting is hard work but perhaps after what she experienced she’ll work hard to be one.

But you've had therapy. I also have - my parents weren't the best. If you have enough self awareness you can still be a good parent but a lot of people just do to their kids what was done to them.

My mum often complains about horrible things her mum did to her whilst I sit there, unable to fathom how she can't remember doing the same things to me(!)

Further, if you have never been raised with any idea of successful parenting it isn't right to bring a helpless child into the world to potentially repeat the cycle.

My mother in law grew up in extreme poverty, emotional and physical neglect and abuse, and one of her parents had an addiction. I was honestly floored when she confided in me about her upbringing. She is an AMAZING mum and grandma. She raised three kids who are great parent figures themselves. She was never loved and cherished as a daughter, but she definitely is as a mother and grandmother.

It's probably harder if you don't have that "blueprint", but not impossible. In mother in law's words, "some people go right the other way".

Child of abuse here. I’m a bloody brilliant parent because I learned what not to do and did the opposite for my children. Your post is offensive.

By these examples, nobody should be having children at all.

Imperfect people can have children, op. We're not about to gatekeep parenthood to people with a perfect middle class upbringing and lovely family background.