To ask why it’s so hard to claim UC?

[Namddf]

I’ve had a migration letter telling me I have to apply for UC (currently on Tax Credits).

I work full time but was previously self-employed and the Ltd company still exists (it’s dormant) so I declared that on the form but said I don’t get any income from it. I’ve now been told I have to attend a ‘self-employment’ appointment at the Job Centre to discuss how I am gainfully self-employed. I am not!

I’ve tried to tell them this but the only way of communicating is via the online ‘journal’ and they take a week to reply and don’t answer my questions anyway. They keep setting appointments at a Job Centre an hour away (not my local one as apparently it is temporarily closed) but I can’t make any of them as I work full time. Am I supposed to take unpaid leave to attend?

I just want to speak to someone on the phone about it, but every number I call says they can’t answer questions about UC. I’m at a total loss.

Any advice?

That sounds horrendous. Bumping for you.

What numbers are you phoning? You should be able to ask them about this.

Can you not just close down the company and then it's no longer relevant?

They'll probably want more details of it, such as any assets, reserves, bank balances left in it, etc.

Just keep putting your messages on your diary - it's actually quite effective. Someone will reply. Just say exactly what you've said here.

You could get a sat appointment

You can get an appointment by phone instead of in person if you write to the work coach or you can move your appointment.
I think it's ok once you are running along.

Just state that you cannot come to appointments Monday to Friday 9-5. The journal is frustrating, I just keep messaging.

Call them anyway. I can’t work due to circumstances (exempt from job searching) and that means the journal is essentially ignored. If they don’t reply within 48 hours I just call and ignore all the ‘you should write in your journal’ waffle. Even if they can’t help you, they will put a ‘please answer the query as quickly as possible’ note in your journal.

You could possibly try reporting your self-employed earnings as "nil" in each assessment period, I can't think of any reason why that shouldn't work.

Easier to just wind up the company though.

My DIL got summoned to an appointment, despite working f/t as a TA. She just told them she couldn't attend, as she'll be at work at the time of the appointment they offered her. They then gave her an appointment in the school holidays, at which she was told she had to look for more hours as her spread over a full year work out at 15 minutes less than 25 hours pw. That was last summer, and she hasn't had any further contact from them since.

This is just the start.

They are fucking AWFUL.

They have screwed us out of £1000 childcare.

No one knows what they are doing, they are thick, untrained, clueless and wrong.

Until you attend the Gateway meeting, any payments will be blocked.

I’ve just managed to get through to someone on the helpline but his English was very broken so it was hard to understand. He said to report the change to my employment online. But I wasn’t self-employed at the beginning! It’s so frustrating.

The job centre has now offered me another appointment on 16th Aug - which of course I can’t attend. And on it goes.

I’ve just left a journal note for my work coach trying to explain again. I’m getting worried that there’ll be a delay in my first payment as time is ticking on.

Oh, and they also say that they overpaid me in Tax Credits even though I reported my change in income a YEAR ago. Currently disputing this.

It’s a shambles.

Even if I’m employed?

Is there any way this can be done via video call? Or phone?

And has she received her payments?

No one knows what they are doing, they are thick, untrained, clueless and wrong.

Some of them really can be, I’ve come across the rudest people which little clue of their own policies. I asked them to check my claim again because something was incorrect, they spent a month arguing the toss with me on that f-ing journal. Well I say arguing, it was me pointing out in detail why they were wrong and them essentially replying ‘haha no’. Finally got it sorted but now refusing to back pay 🙄. Another time I rang and spoke to a man who was either ill or hungover (either way shouldn’t have been answering phones). He groaned his way through what I told him, didn’t take any details for my account, said ‘write it on the journal’ (I already bloody had and it wasn’t being looked at, again!) and put the phone down.

UC as a system is a good one, it pays to work. But it’s being run by a few absolute dimwits. I have spoken to plenty of people on the phone who couldn’t have been more helpful but overall it’s an absolute mess of untrained people.

Don’t get me started on the rest of the DWP….

This is almost identical to my experience.

Ive made complaints and it goes no where. They don't give a crap.

They still owe us money. Money that we will never see.

Just for some clarification, the people who answer the phones work for an agency not the DWP. They know mostly nothing and are not trained in UC, some obviously pick things up as they go along but any information given is not to be relied upon. They certainly don't have the right to tell claimants that their Case Manager will respond by six o'clock etc.
Case Managers get paid a little over minimum wage, a lot of them have no idea what they're doing either especially with regard to housing costs. A lot of fraudulent UC claims are in payment because DWP workers can't be bothered or it's too difficult to refer things to Fraud.
Journal messages are way down the list of priorities on a Case Manager's dashboard, they get done if there's time. Quite often the Case Manager will select "No Reply Needed" to get rid of the piece of work. Having said that, it is soul destroying and neverending work and anyone with any gumption leaves as soon as possible. Management are utterly useless and waste their days doing mostly nothing..except applying for other equally pointless DWP roles
In the OPs case, the verification of her self employed status is a payment blocker and no UC will be paid until the matter is rectified. May be worth redeclaring her employment status as "employed" only but generally only Work Coaches can complete the To Do and release any payment due. The UC system is not good in almost every respect, the legacy benefits systems could easily have been amended and simplified

Every time I’ve called the person on the phone has noted my journal that a response is required within 48 hours and that’s the only thing that’s actually prompted a response. I don’t have a work coach as I’m exempt from working at the moment. The ‘argument’ I had was due to housing element but I preemptively knew they wouldn’t understand the case and asked for a direct referral to a DM. Rather than accepting they knew little about it, they decided to refuse based on their own opinions rather than sending it to someone with the knowledge and authority to make that decision. The pay doesn’t come into that, plenty of people working on actual minimum wage don’t argue the toss with you when you raise an issue.

Could you imagine taking an item of clothing back as a return, within the stated return dates, tag on with receipt in perfect condition. And the till staff take it in turns to tell you ‘no you can’t return this, we don’t take returns’, so you explain their store policy to them in detail, and they still refuse and tell you explicitly you’re wrong. So you ask to speak to someone higher up and they say ‘no we won’t take this to them, we’re saying no’. You’d think they were pretty crap at their job as well.

If you were a director (and/or shareholder) of a limited company you were not self employed. You were either an office holder or an employee. A limited company is a separate legal entity, unlike when you're self employed.

So if it makes the whole UC situation less messy you can tell them you weren't actually self employed and made a mistake.

Exactly. You were a Class 1 NIC payer and employee of the Limited company, not self-employed at all!

That first meeting can be very frustrating, but hopefully things will improve from there. For what it's worth, I also have my own Ltd company which doesn't bring any income in. I still have to report my self employed 'income" (of zero) online each month, and meet with a coach every 3 months or so. (And for those who have suggested otherwise, the DWP doesn't view Directors of Ltd companies as employees - even though HMRC does - unless they employ other staff. Ridiculous and completely wrong, but there you have it.)

It does seem to depend completely on the common sense / mood of the individual you deal with how flexible they will be and how they will interpret the rules. I seem to be very forunate in that almost every single person I've dealt with at my local job centre has been outstanding. Polite, accommodating, willing to adapt meetings (e.g. switch to telephone appointment) if I can't make them for hospital/caring reasons. I can't actually fault them. I think there are many who are doing their best to help within a really shitty, badly designed system that thinks human beings are simply tick box exercises.

I think you may find that your claim does not progress at all until you at least get this first face-to-face meeting out of the way. Have you tried requesting a 9am or 4pm meeting and then booking a half day annual leave? It is annoying to have to do this, but if you can't make the meeting any other way (and they won't accept a phone interview), I can't see another way around it.

Pretty much any form of earnings that isn't a regular paid job will be classed as self employment. Therefore a Gateway appointment is made to assess the level of income from this self employment. A Gateway has to be a face to face appointment and not every job centre has Gateway trained Work Coaches. As a previous poster said, the Gateway is a payment blocker, so do make every effort to attend.
Agency staff on the phones are hated by UC customers and "regular" staff alike. The misinformation they spout is ridiculous.

I’m sorry I know this isn’t my thread but i don’t want to start a new one for the same topic.

Is it easy to claim if you already work and just need the childcare element? I’m going to claim for childcare but won’t get housing element or anything and I work 42 hours per week so presumably won’t need to meet anyone? What will the process be like? TIA

Universal credit is a horrible system designed to demoralise and demonise the less well off. It really makes sure you're kept in your place unless you earn well. Read the thread from the poster with an inheritance to see how. Tax credits was a much "nicer" system that recognised people's efforts rather than hounding and humiliating them and telling them it's not enough. I'm being moved over soon and will lose money if they decide not to give me transitional protection.