Birthday Party payment

[AccountantMum]

If you had been invited to an (adult) family members birthday party by their partner with the following invitation:

"Would you like to come to xxx's Birthday party it's on XXX kids are welcome to come too"

We confirmed we would like to come and thanked for the invitation.

When they came to pay for the birthday party 2 weeks later would you expect to be asked to pay for your portion of the party and food? It's for an activity which will be pay per person not big hall (similar to a children's birthday party)

This has happened and I am surprised, it's enough money to have made me think twice about originally accepting the invite but am still happy to go now we have made plans as it's not local.

Maybe because i'm used to children's birthday parties which I would never ask my children's friends to pay for themselves after inviting them.

That really doesn't clarify; it's the same wording, just a different activity.

This more clearly defines what the difference is between and invitation and a suggestion to join:

UsingChangeofName · Today 11:29

If that is the arrangement they were after, they needed to say
"We're thinking of going to X for Jane's birthday. It is £25per head and is at {address}. We are thinking of booking for Sat 19th at 2pm. Have a think and can you let us know tomorrow if you want us to get you tickets".

The wording you had implies they are hosting / paying.

If you were invited to a friend's birthday meal surely you would expect to pay your share?

If I was invited to say go carting for a birthday outing I would expect to pay for myself

If I was invited to a house party I would not expect to pay but I would bring a bottle

Surely that's the normal?

For an adult’s birthday if it was anything other than a party in a hall or function room I’d be expecting to pay.

An activity or meal for adults is very different from inviting children (who don’t have an income of their own) to do something with your child for their birthday.

If they wanted payment, that should have been specified at the point of invitation.

It's all in the word 'invitation'. An invitation is proffered by a host. A host pays for their invited guests. Being invited assumes that the host will host you/pay for you.

In your scenario, there is no host. There is simply an organiser suggesting that you might like to meet up at X place to celebrate Y's birthday. Everybody is paying for themselves and everybody expects to.

People pretend to be hosting - by accident or design - when they're not doing anything of the sort and it's confusing; see above for the 'hope for the best, prepare to pay'. That's ridiculous, just be clear - if you're actually hosting then you're paying (whether at home or at a venue) - if you're suggesting that people meet up then you're not hosting and that's fine. Just make it clear as UsingChangeofName suggests and you're covered.

The differentiation is really important because that's why people keep asking the question, they don't know what the situation is. It's ridiculous.

I would personally always expect to pay for an adult's birthday unless it was an invitation to their house (or someone's house!) for a dinner party. So going go karting or an escape room or some similar activity or out for dinner or drinks, yes, I'd expect to pay.

I know that MN has this thing where if you are invited to a birthday celebration, it's paid for by the host, but I have truly never in my life encountered such an invite. Amongst our friends, we'd always pay for ourselves. We even do family Christmas that is sometimes pay per person. It's a huge family and if we do one with everyone (50+ people), typically it's £25 per adult, plus usually some drinks or chocolates to share. Because no one can afford to feed that many people without a contribution from everyone, but it doesn't mean it isn't still lovely to get everyone together even if you don't get a free meal out of it. I think it's expected though to be upfront about the cost though because not everyone has £30, £50 or whatever they can just magic from somewhere last minute.

It is different though, the first one has the word 'party' with all its implications and the second doesn't. In the first you are being invited to a party that happens to be at a paintballing venue, whereas the second you are being invited to go paintballing, and it happens to be X's birthday.

If the main purpose of the gathering is a party to celebrate X's birthday (and the paintballing is incidental) then that makes it more likely (albeit not certain) the host is paying and also that there will be a more organised celebration as part of the day, whereas in the second the main purpose is to go paintballing together (particularly if the group often goes paintballing and each pays for themselves), and it happens to be X's birthday, so you would think there's at least a chance you're paying for yourself and maybe buying X a drink in the bar after although it may also turn out to be a more organised and paid for 'birthday party' - you'd have to ask.

Obviously your message is much clearer than either of the first two, no-one could dispute that, but have you never been a bit casual/vague with friends, are you always absolutely explicit about costs and expectations? Good on you if so but I'm certainly guilty at times of assuming people who I know well and spend a lot of time with will know what I mean (and usually they do, or if they don't they ask!). I can definitely think of a scenario where for my birthday it would be nice to spend the day doing something low-key that we often do all together anyway on a weekend day, so I might well message the group saying something like 'hey want to hire bikes and go for a ride together then get a bite to eat at the cafe Saturday, it's my birthday'. I wouldn't think to include costs as they know how much it is or can easily find out from the website, wouldn't offer to buy tickets for people as it's book online or pay when you get there and wouldn't really expect to pay for everyone either for such as a casual/low cost thing, in fact I think I might offend people by implying they couldn't pay £5 for a bike hire for an hour or whatever. I'd be mortified if people turned up dressed up and clutching gifts and expecting all expenses paid and a meal and champagne and think they'd all gone a bit mad whereas if I specifically invite people to a 'party' of course that's a bit more formalised? So I know it's just a few words difference in the example but I do think it makes a difference, also how the group usually socialise and is this activity part of it, their relative financial status etc etc

No, it's the wording. The activity is neither here nor there. You could be inviting people to do paintballing with you - and you are paying for them because you're inviting;
or
You could be suggesting that people come paintballing with you. If you were wise you'd send pricing with the suggestion so that people are very clear.

Insert any activity for 'paintballing'.

It doesn't matter what people's financial status is. If you follow the 'rules' people need never feel wrong-footed because you're either hosting them or you're not.

It's the wishy-washy, wannabe-hosting-but-not-paying that has caused all of this confusion.

If you always socialise with the same group of friends then regardless, everyone will follow the 'norms' of what it is that always happens so, no harm no foul, maxelly.

Should have said the costs on the invite if they wanted you to pay. I'd assume the organiser was paying.

Far better to assume you’re paying for yourself for any activity. It’s the norm for most to pay for yourself as an adult when it’s not a traditional hall/function room party.

At least then if the organiser pays it’s a bonus, rather than the opposite.

Yes, because the rules aren't being followed so nobody knows where they are so the 'assume the worst, hope for the best' principle applies...

Assuming they told you the activity - not just would you like you come

A 'pay-per-person' activity yes I would fully expect to pay for myself, assuming I knew the plan was that activity when I agreed to go along.

This thread is a good explanation of 'the rules':
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4796020-birthday-etiquette

Same applies for anniversaries or any other event where you want people to come to celebrate you.

Anything where you just want to meet up, have food/drinks/whatever, that's a gathering and people would expect to pay... as long as you word it properly and don't pretend to be hosting.

They should have made it clear that payment was involved right upfront.

Its either very sneaky or poor organisation.

I disagree, I think the wording of the two is different enough. I wouldn’t expect to pay in the first scenario but would in the second or would at least have an expectation that I might be.

It’s highly amusing that on a thread where so many have said “no, an activity is obviously paid for yourself” you’re adamant your “rules” are right.

The norm for most people is party = no cost, activity = cost.

If folks need It spelled out that it’s different to a child’s birthday (very bizarre comparison in the OP) then they’re best assuming they’re paying.

They're not my rules but it doesn't surprise me that you don't know them and nor do I care.

No I wouldn't
They should've made it clearer on the invitation
" if you'd like to join us the cost PP will be... Which includes..,
Hope to see you there"

That was phrased very carefully: it's deliberately NOT an invitation for you to be their guest. It's scoping out whether you want to come along to their activity for a birthday celebration.

They knew, or feared, they wouldn't get the answers they wanted if they were clear about you not being a guest. The slyness of that alone would put me off completely. There's no shame in not being able to afford to pay for guests; there's plenty of shame in trying to pull a fast one, banking on people feeling bad.

How rude and aggressive you are with people who disagree with you says it all about you.

Indeed. I thought the same of you. We're not going to see eye to eye so I'll be swerving your posts now.