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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just venting

43 replies

DamnitImTired · 30/07/2023 19:48

My BIL (I’ve posted before about him) got paid out a relatively big insurance claim on a health issue. We took the policy out for him when he was employed by us. He never had any provisions of his own, savings or otherwise, so he is very lucky.

He is healthy and well physically now but isn’t a fan of working and hasn’t had a job since his became well again and hasn’t actually applied himself to getting one either.

Just found out today via relatives who he has been hounding for a loan that he has invested and lost his whole payout in a crypto scam.

I am livid and angry and desperately disappointed in him. This is just another chapter in the self inflicted tragedy of his life. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. I am actually in tears at his stupidity and so desperate for my husband who now again has a middle aged brother to support. I thought this money that he got would give us a bit of breathing space to not have to worry about him but he just seems to have a way of always fucking it up.

Just a vent.

OP posts:
ThreeLittleDots · 30/07/2023 19:50

Why does your DH need to support him? His bed...

CopperSeahorses · 30/07/2023 19:50

Why does your husband need to support him?

ChuckMater · 30/07/2023 19:52

Why do you need to support him? If someone's always digging him out he's not going to learn from his mistakes

INeedAnotherName · 30/07/2023 19:56

Cut him loose. You say he is healthy so he can find his own work.

If its cultural and DH won't stop then maybe it's time for you to remove yourself from the whole situation as you will be forever broke, unable to afford anything nice.

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 05:51

Thank you for your replies. There are no cultural reasons for us to support him but there are emotional and psychological reasons why it would be hard not to. My husband has no other family other than this 52 year old brother. We don’t live in the UK where there is a social support system for him. We do fairly well for ourselves so money isn’t the biggest problem. We live in a small town and it would be incredibly hard to watch a family member effectively live on the street. It’s an enormous amount of emotional baggage my husband has to carry and I’m so resentful of this person.

It’s so easy for others including me to just say let him suffer with the consequences of his behavior but the reality of that is very different. I sometimes wish he had a drug problem so that we could stick him in a rehab Centre with some hope for change but he seems to have some sort of life crippling inability to just be a normal functioning member of society as there doesn’t seem to be any way to get anybody else to care for him and so it rests on us.

OP posts:
mangochops · 31/07/2023 06:00

We live in a small town and it would be incredibly hard to watch a family member effectively live on the street. It’s an enormous amount of emotional baggage my husband has to carry and I’m so resentful of this person

But you bailing him out isnt working is it? he's frittering it away over and over again. Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom to change. You are effectively enabling him to be a spend thrift. I mean, you can carry on funding him if you want but all that will happen is the money will end up getting wasted and thrown down the toilet so not really sure how thats helping him either? are you going to end up in debt because of him?

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 06:09

You’re just telling me all the things I know already. Those are the exact problems I have with the situation. Implementing them is much harder than just writing it down.

Like I said, just a vent. I know things have to change and in all likelihood there will be no smooth transition for him into a new life based on our support. Things will have to change and we will have to reach some sort of agreement about what we are prepared to do and the rest will be up to him. Whether that is a little rented single room on someone’s property and a grocery delivery once a week, I don’t really know.

it is just a tale of two brothers I’m afraid. One who works hard, lives in a beautiful house with a family, drives nice cars, overseas holidays. And the other just a fucking loser with no plan. It would be hard for anybody else to understand unless you have lived a similar situation. The guilt and the desire for someone you love to just get their shit together and live a decent honorable honest life and their complete inability to do so. It’s frustrating.

we have come a long way in dealing with him and this money he got was enough to give him a foot up and fresh start and he thought he knew better. I could honestly punch him.

OP posts:
Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 06:13

And ps. The idea that he is going to change has long gone. The idea that we are crippling his ability to look after himself because we are funding him is also not true. I’ve come to terms with the fact that money or no money he is who he is and any hope for him to change is a waste. He is 52 and is destined to be this way forever.

OP posts:
WeightInLine · 31/07/2023 06:16

He’s 52.

Sorry, but the problem lies with your inability to let go.

mangochops · 31/07/2023 06:21

it is just a tale of two brothers I’m afraid. One who works hard, lives in a beautiful house with a family, drives nice cars, overseas holidays. And the other just a fucking loser with no plan. It would be hard for anybody else to understand unless you have lived a similar situation

Who says I havent lived it? My husband's brother is exactly like this. Three failed marriages, in debt up to his eyeballs, doesnt see his kids due to his unreasonable behaviour in his second marriage, anger issues- will lash out on a hair's trigger, ended up losing his job due to charges for domestic violence allegations from his second wife, threatens suicide regularly because the world is against him- nothing is ever his fault, is insanely jealous of my DH because he has money, a family, and stability (conveniently forgetting that the reason for that is that DH doesnt act like a dickhead). Now he's started another business which looks like its also going to fail and my DH still feels an emotional obligation to help him which is largely cultural and not easy for DH to go against. But we have still decided together that constantly bailing him out isnt working and its not helping him to sort his shit out.

Poppyblush · 31/07/2023 06:23

Sorry but you’re both stupid as you’re enabling his behaviour. Let him suffer the consequences and make him get some rubbish job to provide for himself.

Purpleboat · 31/07/2023 06:25

My DH used to financially support his deadbeat sister. Whilst annoying, I used to let him get on with it. Once we had DC we had a discussion about DC should be our priority. He told her, she kicked off and now she wants nothing to do with him. Sad but shows she was only interested in money. She was/is an incompetent member of society too.

WandaWonder · 31/07/2023 06:27

Well there is another thread on here and there seems to be calls if can afford it you have to pay

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 06:29

I hear you all!

difference is that your brother still seems to have the ability to start a business. My BiL will die with no help. He is going to get kicked out and he has no where to go. he is obese and lazy. It is like watching someone commit suicide. He has zero drive and aero energy. He cannot even walk around the block. We have not supported him for two years as he has been living off insurance money and employment retrenchment.

the money is now gone.

he is not currently on speaking terms with us unless it’s absolutely necessary. But practically in a couple weeks someone (maybe him) will call to say he has been evicted and has no where to go. What would you do? Ignore the phone call? And then what?

I truly and fully understand your sentiments and mean no disrespect to anybody. But please walk me through the details.

OP posts:
mangochops · 31/07/2023 06:39

Personally, I would direct him to contact the council if he is going to be made homeless. Also sounds like he needs a mental health assessment so I might also alert his GP if I knew whom that was. If not, adult social care, and let them assist him.

What I would not do is pay his rent for him, or give him money. DH would find that very, very hard to do but he also recognises that our family and our kids have to come first. You cannot be responsible for someone else's entire life.

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 08:00

Thanks for a sensible reply.
we don’t live in the Uk. We live in South Africa.
No such think as council housing. No social support either.
And no jobs for 52 year old white men who are lazy and unskilled in this country.
I agree with the mental health diagnosis, we have explored this previously and encouraged him to seek psychiatric counseling which lasted 4 sessions. He concluded that there was nothing wrong with him besides for that fact that he has a strained relationship with his family. You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. You cannot be forced to pursue this route if you do not want it.

it is an absolutely devastating burden for my husband to bear. Thank you for your time.

OP posts:
Tatzelwyrm · 31/07/2023 13:15

I know you don't want to, but can you afford a room somewhere for him to live? That and basic groceries

No cash directly to him?

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 13:21

I think that’s where it’s going to end up.

OP posts:
INeedAnotherName · 31/07/2023 13:28

Not read all your posts but had to answer this.

It’s so easy for others including me to just say let him suffer with the consequences of his behavior but the reality of that is very different.

So tell me this. You and your husband die first. Old age or car accident next week, whatever. Who looks after this man now? He will be homeless and poor with severe mental health problems and zero support. Would he starve to death slowly? That is not something a loving brother should be aiming for, but that is the reality.

Your DH needs to understand he isn't helping he is making it worse. Fair enough his brother needs supporting on how to look after himself but there should be firm steps.

He needs to earn so he can eat and have a roof over his head, so what work? Not in your business, somewhere else. Does he need training or courses. What type of work would spark enthusiasm from him?

He needs a room to live in. Find him a lodgers place. If he wants his own flat he needs to put in effort and work to make it happen.

Teach him to cook, or pay for cooking lessons. Teach him how to balance his cheque book.

The ultimate aim is to teach him to stand on his own feet, not to continually bail him out. My mother did this for my brother, it was horrendous to see him fail after she died but I couldn't help him.

Off to read the rest.

Yamatoosogani · 31/07/2023 13:29

DamnitImTired · 30/07/2023 19:48

My BIL (I’ve posted before about him) got paid out a relatively big insurance claim on a health issue. We took the policy out for him when he was employed by us. He never had any provisions of his own, savings or otherwise, so he is very lucky.

He is healthy and well physically now but isn’t a fan of working and hasn’t had a job since his became well again and hasn’t actually applied himself to getting one either.

Just found out today via relatives who he has been hounding for a loan that he has invested and lost his whole payout in a crypto scam.

I am livid and angry and desperately disappointed in him. This is just another chapter in the self inflicted tragedy of his life. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. I am actually in tears at his stupidity and so desperate for my husband who now again has a middle aged brother to support. I thought this money that he got would give us a bit of breathing space to not have to worry about him but he just seems to have a way of always fucking it up.

Just a vent.

Time for you to cut your losses and move on.

Make sure you keep on good terms with his parents so you and your partner can veto any loan attempts.

The hard truth about crypto is that the only people who make money from it were tge original investors, everyone else late to the party is not going to get rich.

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 13:43

Replying to the last few posts.

If we were to die first, we wouldn’t be here to see the inevitable. So that’s quite comforting.
I understand the teaching and helping and coaching but I’m actually leaning towards some sort of medical or psychological intervention if that is even possible. You don’t know what kind of person we are dealing with here. This guy knows eveything about everything, the word sorry has never passed his lips and thank you is unheard of. He is untrainable and uncoachable to the point where you want to bang your head against a wall at his blatant obnoxiousness.

OP posts:
Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 13:43

Oh and there are no parents left. That’s what the brotherly guilt is about. Just the two of them.

OP posts:
INeedAnotherName · 31/07/2023 13:49

Okay, South Africa isn't a good place to be poor in. I get your worry.

But why/how hasn't DB understood that? That there is no safety net and he needs to do the bare minimum to survive ? Is he that depressed it's a form of self harm? Would medication help?

I also see he's avoiding contacting you. You might have to drop the rope then and let him hit rock bottom for a couple of months. Make him see and feel his future if he doesn't change. Then only offer support of finding medical help, or signposting to training centres etc. He has to want to change. You won't always be there.

MatildaTheCat · 31/07/2023 13:51

I think it might be helpful to try and take the view that he is a vulnerable adult, unable to make good decisions and unable to function as an adult. He obviously can’t or won’t change and it’s natural for your DH to have a sense of responsibility towards him.

Its totally ok to feel anger, resentment and frustration at this unpleasant situation but perhaps you can agree with your DH some boundaries such as how will will support him, how regularly you (as in you/DH) will have contact and, maybe most importantly, how much time you will give over to thinking about and discussing BIL. Because it’s the headspace that’s most draining IME.

Original poster
DamnitImTired · 31/07/2023 14:45

But why/how hasn't DB understood that? That there is no safety net and he needs to do the bare minimum to survive ? Is he that depressed it's a form of self harm? Would medication help?

This is what I ask him all the time. Where is your survival instinct? People are hustling around you all day trying to make ends meet!

Then he gets a financial windfall and won’t invest it with our family broker because he is an ‘asshole’ who only produces 6-8% returns (the norm here BTW) and decides he would rather invest ALL of it in a crypto trading platform he was introduced to on social media. A platform with no co reg no, no license, none of the links work, they didn’t require any personal details. Sent him a bitcoin wallet to pay money into and a logon to a fake page which shows his money ‘growing’. His car is broken so he tries to withdraw to pay for the repair and guess what… they need money to release his ‘investment’. He paid it and then guess what…. They needed more money which he has asked us for. I have absolutely refused to do that and produced all the evidence of the scam I can find on the internet. Spoke to him today and he still does not believe that he has been scammed. He is upset with us that we cannot give him the money he needs to get the funds released. He tried to borrow money for a taxi today from a relative.

it’s crazy. He is so lazy and so ignorant but know it all that he thinks people working are wasting their time when they can invest in stuff like this.

OP posts: