People who have cleaners, nanny's etc

[W0MENclimb]

I am happy for you to tell me iabu. I'm just trying to understand it. Just stayed at a friend's in another country where it's normal for white people to have cleaner, nanny etc and they are all black.
I felt so uncomfortable with it, I'd hate someone doing menial tasks for me, the fact that they are black felt worse for me.

I realise that some people think that they are doing them a favour because they need work but it just feels wrong to me. AIBU?

My black friend who is on benefits has a white cleaner. Single parent with kids and said she would rather give someone £30 a week then do it herself when she has no time.

My cleaner is hispanic, her face doesn't effect anything as that's her job and she's very good at it. I have a cleaner because as a working mum with 2 kids I just don't have the time to do it myself.

YANBU about the context you describe but plenty of us employ help at home and it’s entirely respectful and fine. I pay the market rate, respect the boundaries and respect them as individuals.

I suspect that the scenario you describe may not fit that description? I’ve also visited a culture where having domestic helpers from very poor countries and treating them quite poorly is regarded as completely normal and I found it very uncomfortable.

I'd be uncomfortable in this sort of situation, though any given household might be okay.

When I worked as a cleaner when I was younger, I was fine with my main employer who I could chat with as a human being, but felt very awkward around her grown up son who would act like I was part of the furniture.

So I think it depends on the dynamic they have with the cleaners, but yes it does seem like a glaring example of racial inequality.

Plenty of white people are also cleaners.

I'm white and have a white cleaner, albeit of a different nationality. I'm comfortable with the role of employer and manager so colour wouldn't be an issue.

If you mean countries like Hong Kong, Singapore, UAE - everyone has lots of household help, not just white expats. The housekeepers/cleaners/gardeners are usually immigrants from Asia and Africa.

I know what you mean though. I had the unfortunate assignment to work in Dubai and the only Emirati I ever saw were a few VPs at work. The whole city is served by immigrants.

The UK doesn’t feel like this at all, even if certain jobs are dominated by immigrants.

I assume you are talking about one of the ex colonial nations eg. South africa/carribbean nations.

unfortunately there are deep seated inequalities in these countries which require many decades of affirmative action to see real change. also Caucasian people mostly consist of expat communities who are very wealthy and the local population would be afrocarribbean - hence will have more of a class mix eg. probably large parts of the population not so well off, small middle class and some being very wealthy.

solution is ibv not to deprive people from work. and what is to say cleaning or housework is of less value? I come from a country where people have household help more commonly. the people who help out in our house are part of our family and take great pride in their work. so I would say its more important how people undertaking these roles are treated.

What is your AIBU?
A different country with its own racial context and issues is irrelevant to the UK.
I'm brown. Live in the NW. All my cleaners have always been white but strangely most Uber drivers brown. A few black or white. No idea why.

I have a cleaner. She's Polish but her ethnicity is irrelevant. I really appreciate her - she's brilliant.

I find this noticeable with carers in the UK. I've known a few people who needed carers at home and I've never met a carer who wasn't black and over 90% were specifically from Nigeria. I guess it makes me uncomfortable because of some understanding that it's so badly paid, people born in the UK won't do this job, even though it's such a vital and difficult job.

I used to live in a country where it was the norm to have a maid, nanny etc. I hated having to deal with ‘staff’ and the responsibility of it. I also hated seeing women coming from really poor countries, often leaving their own children, to earn a few hundred dollars a month to run after spoiled children.

I don't know what the question is here. Is it ok to employ a cleaner? Yes, of course it is. Is there something wrong in a society where all the cleaners come from one racial group and all their employers from another? Yes, probably.

Why would you feel uncomfortable with someone doing 'menial tasks' for you?

I employ cleaners and a gardener. They advertise their businesses and are, I assume, pleased to take on new customers.

It is common to pay someone to do a task that you can't do yourself, because you lack the skills or time. I also pay someone to do decorating, for example.

I can see how race might feel like an issue in the country you were visiting but don't think that's the case in the Uk really. My cleaners are white, and one of them seems to be significantly wealthier than me (owns the company, big team).

I would find it hard. I have been a cleaner for a few years though mainly to rich Asians.
My friend who moved to Kenya is white and they stopped the housekeeper and cook immediately as they felt so uncomfortable. The next day the staff came back in tears begging to be re-employed. Which they did. It's complicated because of history. But if you pay well, treat your staff well, make sure they have holidays and sick pay then it's OK. If you can't afford to pay well and give holidays then you don't get staff.

The fact that you would not want anyone doing "menial" jobs for you is your problem and fairly short sighted tbh. You are talking about people's livelihoods and many take pride in it and charge a decent amount of money from those who don't have the time/capacity/inclination to do it themselves. Many people choose to be cleaners/nannies/home helpers because they are good at it and it fits with their other commitments. You also might change your mind when you are 95 and just getting your own breakfast is a struggle.

The race element in some countries is another matter and will be different from place to place and from one home to the next. It's impossible to generalise.

Aah I’ve just read you are specifically talking about a racial element. Sorry for not reading the original post properly. Yes, I did notice this where I lived. The refugee community provided a lot of domestic staff where I lived (Sudanese, somali etc). They lived in such terrible conditions and were definitely exploited by the rich families who hired them (long hours). Yet the families thought they were doing them a favour.

I am white and so is my cleaner.
I treat her with the same respect and courtesy as I would anyone else providing me with a service I am paying for, everyone in our house is expected to do the same. She gets money we get a clean house, everyone is happy

@W0MENclimb
The only wrong happening in those situations would be under paying those employees because of their race or ethnicity. If your friend is paying a fair salary then this is no difference from any other transaction between employer and employee.

Are you talking about a country where black people are generally only able to work in roles like this? Then ‘yes’ - I can see how that would feel wrong.

Because that’s different from having a black cleaner or nanny here.

Nothing to do with race or skin colour but I loathe having staff around while I’m at home and now I no longer work I do my own cleaning and gardening etc. I have no idea how the super rich can stand having a house full of cleaners and cooks etc.

This.

You’re conflating structural racial inequality with the act of employing someone for domestic childcare work. For what it’s worth, I spent 20 years as an immigrant in the UK, and the nannies and cleaners I employed were all white English.

I am not white, living in the UK. I employ a white European nanny to look after my children, so that I can work.
She is well paid and has a contract that sets hours and protects her like any other employment contract. On an hourly basis she is getting more than twice the minimum wage and all in all significantly more than most graduate programmes pay these days.
No exploitation happening here.

Your context sounds different and more racially tinged. On an individual basis I’m guessing the local employees are happy to have work because their country doesn’t offer many better opportunities sadly. if the government provided the same kind of unemployment benefits you can get in the UK, likely many would rather not work vs have the long hours you describe at a low wage.

I have a cleaner once a week, a dog walker three mornings a week and respite care one afternoon a fortnight.

I have them because my husband is physically disabled and brain damaged following a stroke and he has now developed vascular dementia. I am in the same room as him almost 24/7. Some early mornings I can get out and walk the dogs before I get him up, and most afternoons we can take them out together but the runs they get from the walker are wonderful for them.

The cleaner is because I simply don't get time to do much except husband-care and the cooking. I cook nearly everything from scratch with fresh ingredients because it's so much better for him. He comes out to the kitchen and "helps" which can make it take longer but he enjoys it.

The respite care is so that I remain able to do the husband-care without losing my marbles.

Not sure this is UK wide. I'm a careworker and, of a staff total of around 150, the overwhelming majority are white UK born women. 3 are black women and 2 are white men.

This is Yorkshire though.