20 year old lazy, dirty son

[PissedOff2020]

Really at my wits end. Sorry this is a lengthily one.

We have 4 boys, eldest is 20 & dropped out of Uni after the first term - well over 18 months ago now. He didn’t tell us of course, had 5 weeks off over xmas and made no attempt to look for work. When we eventually found out and asked why the hell he hadn’t been looking for work he said he ‘wanted to chill and have the xmas break’. He was 19 then.

Mu husband eventually found him a job 2 months later, as ds’s effort was non existent. Zero hours contract and all good at first. His room was a dirty,dirty hovel with a smell coming out (think plates, food, rubbish etc all over floor). Carpet ruined, walls filthy.. clothes all over floor - can’t even open door there is that much shit. Anyway, that’s been a constant cause of arguments in house - just clean it ffs! He’s just got worse with that, we are quite house proud and I resent the smell upstairs- it’s a joke. He never contributes to household chores, despite countless conversations about it. Just does the bare minimum to get by.
Faat forward to now, his zero hours is currently working out at 8 hours a week. Been like that for 3 months and he’s not bothered to look for a job. We’ve told him he needs full time job, job hunted for him, sent him linked to apply - he does nothing. He sleeps all the time and games all night, sat in his filth.
Took him abroad last month, in the hope to speak to him away from the augments at home and also let him see life outside his bedroom. He slept all day, total waste of money. When I spoke to him about it he couldn’t see any issue with staying in his hotel room all day.
Over the last 2 months he’s got even worse, doesn’t even speak to us. Literally walks in a room and ignores us - we say hello, he has headphones on and so can’t hear anything, but makes no effort to acknowledge us etc. He eats meals if we cook, otherwise lives off sandwiches and cereal.
I have had enough, it’s intolerable. Constant tension and frustration in the house over it. Spoke to him and said I felt like he was treating us like doormats and he has no gratitude for what he has and enough was enough. Told him, the atmosphere in the house with him ignoring us was awful, just made us feel like he doesn’t give a shit about us. Asked why he wasn’t applying for jobs, he shrugged his shoulders. Told him we are not working our arses off, both working full time, for him to work a day a week and sleep all day. Then do not a thing around the house and blank us in the process.
Eventually it finished in a huge row after he snarled he’d apply for jobs but we shouldn’t speak to him at all anymore. Genuinely like he was angry we expected him to work. To add, even before his hours were really slashed he’s only ever worked around 25-30 hours per week at best. He’s had it so easily but he hasn’t a single bit of appreciation. We’ve spoken to him a year ago when he said he was unhappy at work - suggested all sorts, he was going to look into things but he never did.
I just don’t know what to try next. Explained to him over and over before yesterday this is his chance to build his career, we are supporting him whilst he does that. He’s not though, he is quite happy to do nothing and wait until it’s at breaking point - which is where I am at.
Anyone been here? Any advice from any others?

It’s really common for parents to do this, I know many who switch off the WIFI to certain devices at night. There are plenty of apps that enable you to do this. We do it during school terms.

Tbf, the ones I know have teenagers, not 20-year-olds. But if their son is staying up gaming all night, it could be a way to break the cycle.

I do see the irony, indeed 😃

But you know when people start flinging personal insults they've reverted to their childhood coping strategies and so here we are, sometimes you have to respond accordingly and go with it because adult conversation has left the building.

You honestly cannot disagree on MN it's hilarious, people will petulantly start throwing their toys out until you give in and if you don't give in, you're ignorant or inflammatory.

It's just funny. I've honestly enjoyed it tonight. I don't think OP is any further on but thank you to those who dont try and force their ideas on others, sweet conversation,

Good night 😊

Where did I personally insult you? I said I thought you were being deliberately inflammatory, that’s a statement with no insults in it. You’re disagreeing for the sake of it, arguing with people with lived experience and those who have been diagnosed in adulthood and saying you completely disagree that people get diagnosed late. They literally do. That’s someone’s lived experience.

‘This you?’ With stupid pictures is honestly something I haven’t heard since primary school and I can’t take you seriously. Does it make you feel good being a dick on the internet? Do you have to be?

@JudgeRinderonTinder I thought you had bowed out....

Oh, excuse me, I remembered calling you an ignorant fool because you said something clearly wrong that you have no idea about. But it’s hardly insult of the century. If you don’t know about something, that makes you ignorant of that topic.

I don't think the OP should tolerate any of this shit. I'm just suggesting a way of not tolerating it which is different from chucking him out/starving him etc.

Yes, do look further into ADHD @PissedOff2020. It’s all very well some people saying “tell him to buckle down” but that may be difficult for him even if he wants it to be different. He may be as bewildered by his own self-sabotage as you are.

ADHD is getting a lot of very uninformed coverage at the moment which is doing those of us with a diagnosis no favours. So mentioning it as a possibility is often unpopular because holding up one typical behaviour of ADHD for examination (as is often done on SM) finds that behaviour to be something we all do and it then is labelled as “not real”. There is a lot of TikTok diagnosis going on which isn’t always helpful. It is tricky to describe but it is a complex constellation of behavioural symptoms, brain chemistry, genetic inheritance and co-morbidity, and unless you’ve seen it in action in close quarter, for example in one of your children (or in yourself) it can be hard to understand just what a barrier this can be in launching into an adult world.

People with Inattentive type ADHD (formally ADD) often have poor executive function: for example time blindness, or an inability to plan for and keep in mind future events. There are often problems with prioritising and people with ADHD often struggle with feeling completely overwhelmed and frozen to the spot by a list of tasks that others would manage. Also difficulty stringing together actions to meet long-term goals and trouble organising materials and setting schedules. This can lead to problems at school but often the problems come later when more autonomy is expected of the individual.

For a diagnosis of ADHD to be appropriate it has to have been present in childhood even if it was not obvious as such, and a proper diagnostic interview and various clinical measures taken usually ascertain childhood ADHD even though it may have changed over time as people master some of their difficulties or learn to mask elements.

People with ADHD can have trouble controlling emotions or impulses and there is more research (I believe) to look at Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (particular sensitivity to rejection/criticism). This can have an impact on managing friendships beyond the usual teenage battles. Often there is difficulty analysing or processing information regardless of “IQ”. It can be extremely difficult to focus on tasks that don’t hold interest and very easy to become hyper-focussed on things that deliver continuous dopamine hits - social media and gaming are good examples of this. Often people with ADHD have poor sleep patterns or zero sleep, this is to do with dopamine problem too I believe.

I have ADHD, I was diagnosed a few years ago, I’m 56 and have (generally) learned to manage the above and mercifully I spent the first 30 years of my life without the existence of social media etc, or I think I would have been swallowed up by it. I have had to pedal hard to get through education and manage my working life. I have a responsible job and have an MSc education (I was also expelled from school and dropped out of university on my first attempt), my house is largely in chaos (luckily I’m married to tidy man), I can never find my car keys, I sometimes find people exhausting and I have to stop myself from leading a completely nocturnal life.

My DD has ADHD too (it’s not unusual for more than one generation in a family to have ADHD), she is just like your son and has dropped out of university too. I know it isn’t “upbringing” as my other children are very different. It is worth considering whether ND could be a factor - it’s not an excuse for bad behaviour but it could be a reason. Some of the traditional hardline parenting which works with many young people just doesn’t work with ADHD, neither is counselling or psychotherapy that isn’t specific to ADHD particularly helpful. It’s not that the sensible parenting strategies stated upthread shouldn’t be in place (consistent boundaries, expectations of certain behaviour etc) it’s just that if both he and you have insight into what is going on (if ND is a factor) it’s going to be easier for him to meet those expectations.

Depression could be a factor as a stand alone or as a symptom of failing to cope due to specific problems such as ND.

I hope things improve. I must say the 18-25 young adult years can be a real challenge. Just because the world says 18 is adult, doesn’t mean it is for all of them.

Sorry this is such a lengthy post … !

I did 🤣 I keep getting the notifications and they are distracting me 🤣 anyway who cares what randoms online think.

Good luck OP, hope you get to the bottom of this 🙂

@JudgeRinderonTinder you do clearly.... do you want me to quote you from earlier?

Remove his bedroom door from its hinges. I know the stench will be worse upstairs.
Remove his privacy and privileges.

@Stomacharmeleon you mean I cared what people thought when I was reading people calling OP’s son lazy, useless, etc? Yeah it upset me because I’m already having an awful day and it doesn’t make for nice reading to know that’s how I might be viewed but I get over it 😂

The whole point of my post wasn’t to make it about me but it was trying to open some peoples eyes about the possibilities. I can see how it may have come across and annoyed people. Oh well. It’s life, I guess you always have those who don’t see nuance in the world and don’t understand others struggles. I just hope OP doesn’t get too harsh on her son without first exploring reasons for his behaviour.

The fact he slept through his holiday is what stood out most for me to be honest, taken together with the rest of the post.

My friend didn’t put her foot down with her son and he’s now nearly 30 and holed up in his room obsessed with gaming, no real friends, hooked on weed and no job. She uses the excuse that he has social anxiety, yet he seems fine to go and meet his dealer when need be.
God knows how he will survive when her and her husband die.

OP, I think a bit of tough love is in order here. How is your son ever going to progress with his life, or meet anyone, if he is not motivated to work and lives in filth? He doesn’t sound like much of a catch, a stroppy adult with hygiene problems and no desire to do anything. I would be making it quite clear that you will be charging him rent from XX date and that if he wants to continue to live under your roof as an adult, he must contribute to the household.
I would also give him a date to have his pigsty sorted by and if he hasn’t, you go in with black bin bags and anything on the floor or left out in a mess goes in the bags and is binned.

If he has not found a job or started contributing to bills by then, his access to WiFi is stopped (password change) and he is given notice to leave.

I agree that something needs done to get the guy to sort his shit out but it's really not reasonable to take away the privacy of a grown man by removing doors

@JudgeRinderonTinder I am sorry you are having a bad day.

For what it's worth OP doesn't strike me as someone who will just discount the things that have been suggested. She has said as much.

I’m sure the OP won’t discount what’s been said, it’s some of the replies that I didn’t like reading, especially the later ones that were basically telling me my own experience was wrong.

I came on here and gave my own experience to try and help someone else and maybe educate people at the same time, who knows. But as expected I was met with ridicule. I keep quiet on a lot of these threads because I know what the reaction will be 😂

Good night.

Can he not be encouraged to find a new course/something educational - he must have felt his ambitions were dashed when he dropped out of uni. Then he can work part time around a course. I'd rather my kids finish their education properly rather than grafting in low paid work. I don't really agree with the 'kick him out' mentality - a bit of tough love is fine but I'd not see my son on the streets.

it's really not reasonable to take away the privacy of a grown man by removing doors

A grown man would pay for his own place to live instead of leeching off Mummy and Daddy and taking resources from his younger siblings.

@JudgeRinderonTinder I really didn't see it like that. I don't believe you were ridiculed and if you felt that you should have reported it.
I saw a difference of opinion.

a difference of opinion is one thing, but disagreeing with me over facts, like people being diagnosed in adulthood, even though I have been because my problems were overlooked in school, I just thought it was just how I was. How is it possible for someone to disagree with a lot of people being overlooked? It’s a fact? It’s like disagreeing that fire burns.

Disagreeing with me that it can affect people differently? There was a few posts like that, these things are well established, it’s a spectrum disorder.

Teens are just lazy sometimes but this seems different.

Or does she not believe ADHD exists and we’re just like this on purpose? Yes, everyone wants to live this way, right? 🤣

You are making this hugely personal and I stand by my last comment. This is not about you. No one said adults weren't diagnosed. No one said people don't present differently.

I am well aware of what a spectrum is.

Other posters are entitled to disagree with you and give their opinion. His own mother hadn't considered it.

He really doesn't sound mentally well. My step son was similar before he had a complete psychotic break, same age. I don't think this is just laziness, I don't think he is well.