All old people should sell up family homes for families.

[benigogo]

Not really an AIBU, more a hypothetical question really. This view comes up a lot on MN, and I'm interested in the detail of what people actually imagine when they say it. What type of property should they be giving up? What type of property should they be moving to? How old is old? What about younger people who under occupy a property? For example 2 friend couples, have recently downsized. Both from a 4 bed detached, one to a 4 bed semi, and the other to a 3 bed semi. Their homes were bought, one by a young professional couple, and the other by a couple in their seventies, themselves downsizing. If you hold this view what do you visualise?

This is perhaps the scariest post I have ever seen on here. For as long as someone has capacity, they have the right to make their own decisions about the risks they are willing to take. Even if someone else considers those risks to be unacceptable. Children have the right to say they cannot/will not help any more, but that's as far as it goes.

Don't agree that they should have to move/downside just because they're old but do feel that more support should be offered for them to maintain their larger homes.

Speaking as someone currently renovating a home bought off an older couple who did nothing to it since they bought it off another older couple who hadn't made changes since the early 00s.

It's got the bones of a lovely home but was starting to suffer from a little bit of neglect.

I plan to be one of those old people that need to be turfed out for the young'uns (albeit in 50 years or so) 😉

Not really an AIBU, more a hypothetical question really.

Exactly.

Unless we live under a dictatorship, or the government creates some fabulous financial incentives, it's not going to happen.

And where would you begin?
Over 70?
Over 80?
Over occupancy (bedroom taxes?)

We are in our 60's, our house is too large for our needs and we plan to downsize within the next 10 years. However...

• all our friends and community are where we currently live
• desite living in a hilly county, our town is flat and accessible for us to walk to supermarkets, shops, doctor, pharmacy, hairdresser, range of health and social activities (yoga, swimming etc), plus excellent public transport to nearby city
• There are numerous new housing estates but their locations mean that we would need to be able to drive (it is probable the dh will loose his sight as he ages)
• Of the thousands of new houses I have not managed to find one single property that has single level living, and many are on 3 floors. There are flats and apartments but they tend to be very small, starter homes, too small for our needs as (hopefully) active 70 year old grandparents.

We are actively researching so when the time comes (or the right property comes up) we know what our options are, but after 2 years we are pretty despondent. The lack of something suitable is leading us towards staying where we are until our 80s and then moving to a retirement property which has some kind of social/care support. But by then we will have added to the number of 'old' people living in far too big houses for far too long.

My parents both lived in their family home until they died (or had short hospital stays during which they died). They had various frailties in very old age but I believe their mental health was massively maintained by being part of the community with great neighbours (including one neighbour's children who painted my Mum's nails for pocket money - she had never worn nail polish in her life!). They were able to make gradual adaptations to their house to create a downstairs bathroom and accessible shower, and eventually reconfigured rooms to create a downstairs bedroom which could accommodate a hospital bed. My Dad had only ever lived in two houses - the one he was born in, and then the one they bought when they married. 57 years in the same house meant that as his dementia progressed he could still find the fridge, the bathroom, knew exactly which drawer his watch was kept in, the exact turn in the stair etc. Muscle memory kept him safe when his cognitive memory was in decline. Short spells in an unfamiliar environment and he was a lost soul, back at home he walked into the kitchen and made scrambled eggs (as he had being doing for the previous 50+ years).

PILs downsized to what seemed like the perfect place, a new bungalow on a quiet cul-de-sac, looking out onto fields , sheep, cows... But it was 2 hours drive from family, and on the outskirts of a small village, 1mile walk to the shops. As they became very elderly MILs dementia meant she couldn't find her way around the kitchen, and didn't know how to find her way back home if out. FIL couldn't manage the walk to town, they had to give up their car. They became socially isolated. The beautiful view and rural setting doesn't offer much company.

There aren't always easy answers.

What happens though if a parent has dementia and you uproot them from something (one of the only things?) that is 100% familiar?

And what happens to the alterations made so that your other parent can still live in their home with their increasing disabilities?

What happens if they downsized and their adult child cannot go home to care for them? (Thank god they didn’t)

When available assisted living/care homes in the area (or small bungalows) only seem to pop up on the same day as Brigadoon?

“ I don’t think OP is saying old people should move, but asking how people who say old people should move support their opinion.

I’d say it can work, though only if the old person genuinely wants to and hasn’t been pressured or emotionally blackmailed. “

I agree @Ofcourseshecan

The thought of anyone giving up their home just because someone decides it is the best solution for someone else is not what I would wish for anyone.

There are many variations to this dilemma. And although it sounds a simple solution when it is said out loud, the reality isn’t always so.

Agree with you

I could downsize to a smaller 2 bed property. It's probably a great idea as I'll have lots of lovely cash in the bank to spend.

But then, as a family, we would need 3 smaller properties (2 young adult sons) whereas now we are only using 1 medium property. And my medium property has gone up so much that younger families wouldn't be able to afford it anyway and me & my boys would be taking 3 properties that they might be able to afford off the market.

So it's more cost effective and fair if we all stay in the one house for now eh 🙄

@RegentCafe wowsers! My relatives were lucky to only struggle physically & mentally were still sharp as a tack.

My DF is in a massive house but the main issue is not that he's "taking up space" or stopping us from having money but that it has too many stairs and he needs to plan what he'll do if he has a fall. He's kind of accepted he'll have to move.

Loads of family homes on the market where I am at the moment and none of them are selling anyway. Even if you made them really unappealing to singles or couples to force them to downsize there’s no market for them at the moment here

There are clearly a lot of people on here who have never been carers to very determined very elderly relatives who have had dementia or sudden strokes, or lose their sight/hearing. I envy them!

@moderndilemma

I cross posted with you.

Your post really resonated with me.

Aye. Me too @OwlBlossom

You can't force them to downsize, but I do think there should be incentives to encourage and help them. For a lot, it's the sheer stress of finding a property, dealing with estate agents and solicitors and removal firms, then dealing with transferring utilities, and then having to do work such as redecorating etc., so it's not just about money, in fact it's probably not about money at all. I remember my own mother not even wanting to have new carpets or decorators in her home because she'd have to move all her "stuff", empty drawers, etc and she simply couldn't face it. Hell, we're only 58 and we've already said we're never moving again because we can't face the stress and hassle of it, so we'll be carried out in wooden boxes! I have no idea what kind of help/incentive could be offered, but maybe "one stop shop" type of personal assistant support who'd deal with all the formalities, organising things, etc., may be a good start.

We could turn into a communist dictatorship and ensure everyone is housed in a home exactly suited to their current needs. And moved as their needs change. But for all its faults, I prefer the freer society we actually live in.

What we really need is affordable homes for young couples and single people so they can get into the housing market earlier. And where I live they are being built everywhere - huge high rise blocks, though it seems to be families moving in, sadly.

Inevitably a proportion of older people will live in homes too large for them, but they won't live forever, so eventually a family will benefit. My parent still lives in the family home. It could be sold and pulled down to make way for several smaller family homes and perhaps will in a few years time. Meanwhile, why should they lose their home of over 50 years?

Incentives have been lightly discussed at points - mostly a stamp duty holiday/exemption for people over a certain age downsizing

There is probably also a lever that can be pulled with IHT if there was any political will

But generally it is unpopular with older voters because as has been seen on the thread, there is a hysterical knee jerk worst case scenario reaction

PILs downsized to what seemed like the perfect place, a new bungalow on a quiet cul-de-sac, looking out onto fields , sheep, cows... But it was 2 hours drive from family, and on the outskirts of a small village, 1mile walk to the shops. As they became very elderly MILs dementia meant she couldn't find her way around the kitchen, and didn't know how to find her way back home if out. FIL couldn't manage the walk to town, they had to give up their car. They became socially isolated. The beautiful view and rural setting doesn't offer much company.

The same thing happened to my mother who never downsized but it may have benefitted her to do so. Her home was a detached house at the bottom of a culdesac on the outskirts of the city. It was fine as long as she was able to drive, but when she gave up she became isolated. She also lost the confidence to use public transport even though there was a bus stop not far from the house. I do think it might have slowed her decline i to dementia had she just moved into the village down the road but she would never consider it, among other things she was terrified of loss of privacy.

our three bed semi is an easy few minutes’ walk to a busy street with shops, pubs, coffee shops and public transport links and will be great for when we get old and can no longer drive.

My mother just sold her large 3 bed semi, 100ft long garden. She’s on her own, not really feeling her age, but after an unexpected stay in hospital, she decided it was just too much for her. I’m glad I didn’t have to make the decision for her. She’s bought a tiny 2 bed. I think it was the right thing to do, it was a big family house, but she worked into her 70s and no way should she have been made to sell up.

My mother lives alone in a 4 bedroom house. I think she Woolf happily downsize, but it just isn't possible for her. Her house is in good condition and decorated to her tastes.

Bungalows that come on the market are more expensive than her current house and often very run down. She is in no position to take out a loan or mortgage.

Retirement flats are plentiful in our area, but the ground rent and maintenance costs would soon eat into the small amount she would receive when selling her house, assuming there is anything left over from sales and moving costs.

Older people need incentivising to move, but because of the shortage of suitable properties they are too expensive.

My parents will never move from their 4/5 bedroom house until they have to.

• they built it themselves, it’s our family home and they love it
• they want some spare rooms for when family come to visit
• they have tons and tons of stuff 🙄 that they have no intention of getting rid of
• they have hobbies that need room (mum mum has a sewing room, my dad has a billion stamps / albums etc)
• they prefer to sleep in separate rooms now anyway

it does irritate me slightly when they moan about not having enough space (we are a family of four living in a two-bed apartment) or when we visit and can’t put anything away as every cupboard/ drawer is stuffed full with ‘stuff’. But it’s very much their house to do with as they want.

It would be better to build more houses.

Larger houses can be adapted and have gardens. Family can stay too.
Mum moved to a 5 bed so we can stay (we're there almost every month) and she can live fully on the ground floor when the time comes.

Bit much if you bought your home, but I do agree with people in council houses downsizing. When I worked with vulnerable families, they had to wait so long to get housing with more than one bedroom, yet lots of pensioners were swanning about in 3 bed houses, that does not seem quite fair.

@ArcaneWireless

What happens though if a parent has dementia and you uproot them from something (one of the only things?) that is 100% familiar?

Excellent and very valid post. My MIL is in the early stages of dementia and she only "functions" because of muscle memory really - she can do everything she needs without thinking about it, i.e. making meals, laundry, cleaning, shopping, etc., but she's completely hopeless when she has to think or something changes because she's incapable of it! The local newsagents closed a couple of years ago due to covid and she's never got to grips with going to the alternative one in the other direction - still wanders down and gets confused when she sees it's closed and thinks she'll go the next day when it's open again (despite it being obviously empty and derelict!).

We've taken her on holidays with us for around 10 years - yes, she's been confused, but she just tagged along with us, and was fine. Last year we took her on a short UK break, first time in 3 years due to covid, and she was a nightmare. Couldn't settle at all, prowling around all night, just couldn't understand it was a holiday home (we'd been to plenty together), thought it was our new house or that we'd sold her house and moved - literally minutes after we told her it was a holiday home, she'd ask again where she was and why we'd moved. She started getting argumentative and aggressive (she's usually always very passive). We came home early and won't be taking her anywhere again. Thing is as soon as she got through her front door, she was fine, went to put the kettle on, couldn't understand why she had a suitcase as she'd already forgotten she'd been away!

It's really better for people in that state to be left where they are for as long as they can muddle on in their own little world.

When people on these threads say about older people downsizing they don't generally mean that want they take up a nice little 2 or 3 bed house that a younger person might want, what they really mean is they want them to go into a flat out of the way.