Are we now responsible for FILs debts now he's passed away?

[DebtAfterDeath]

Really sorry, posted in legal but also here as i know traffic is heavier and i am desperate for advice.
FIL recently passed away ( 5 weeks ago).
Today my husband has found a letter from Ovo stating he owes £3600.
We also believe he had other debs and CCJs but we have no idea on the amounts.
My SIL used the Tell us Once service but Citizens Advise told me today they don't notify people he owes money to and that's our responsibility.
His only estate is the £6000 in his bank when he died (which the bank have already sent to SIL and she has split in half with my husband) and a potential £10k life insurance claim. He privately rented and had nothing else, no valuables and so on.
We are really worried that we may get chased up for money and Citizen's Advise have recommend we register his death in The Gazette. It's going to cost £100 to do it (fine). But nobody I'm talking to seems to have heard of this and are saying pretty much just leave it, he didn't own a lot anyway and this is more for people with large estates.
We want to do the right thing I'm just not sure what that is?
Also there is an option on The Gazette to use the forwarding address service so our address doesn't get disclosed but again this doubles the cost of the notice to almost £200 and we aren't sure how necessary it is
We are so clueless, I'd be really grateful for any advice. The lady at Citizen's Advice was lovely but admitted she got all her advice off the internet as it was a new one to her!
Thanks

"The lady at Citizen's Advice was lovely but admitted she got all her advice off the internet as it was a new one to her!"

I'm a bit surprised at this. I mean it could.be new to her but shouldn't be to her colleagues. Someone with debt dying isn't exactly a unique situation. No shade, just surprised.

But yeah, in my experience the debt is cleared from the estate before division. However, no clue on what happens with the letters if you ignore them.

They may get wrotten off or they may get sold to a debt recovery agency who will pursue them.

I am not a lawyer but have carried out probate for two family estates according to regulations.

What should have happened is the bank should only release funds on receipt of a probate certificate. With the exception of funeral costs, which can be paid out on production of the funeral director's invoice. As your FIL had a funeral plan that was already covered.

To obtain probate all assets and liabilities (debts) have to be listed so that inheritance tax liability can be assessed.
You are not liable for his debts, they should be paid out of the funds left after probate. Any not covered are written off.

Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss.

Please don't panic when it comes to sorting out the estate, most of the people you'll speak to will be nothing but helpful.
There is a lot of well meaning but very wrong advice on here. The bank payment to your SIL is normal and as long as it isn't spent until you know its fine then you'll be OK. I was left to deal with all kinds of mess after a death and I recommend that you speak to the Bereavement Advice Centre that's run by the Co-op. I called their helpline and they stopped me from worrying and filling in forms that weren't needed.

https://www.bereavementadvice.org

His debts come out of his estate. .no probate as it's well below the limit, assuming no property.His funeral is a priority, then any tax..theres no more cash. You're not personally liable at all, you just have to administer the estate.

There's no need for probate based on what she's said..the estate is absolutely rock bottom. The bank was fine to release funds for funeral etc as they can release funds up to 20k without probate. . My ex died intestate, with no assets and less than 20k savings and the estate was wrapped up in a month.

the Co-op legal services were absolutely wonderful when I had to do this. Recommend you have a chat

The solicitors released the funds from my grandad's house sale to his children and then probate came through 14 months later 🙄. Fuck ups happen all the time. I would keep the £6,000 somewhere for a year or so and then divide it up if you haven't heard from any of his debtors. I wouldn't be stressing to much as neither the money in his account or the debts are particularly large. Certainly wouldn't be bogging myself down in endless streams of paperwork.

You don’t need probate when there is no property and an administrator has come forward or there is a will.

The estate is responsible for the debts. Any money he had or money from selling parts of the estate goes to the debt and there is an order for this.
After the estate has been used up the rest of the debt is nulled.
If there is money left after paying the debts the rest of the estate can be split up.
You will need to apply for probate.

I'm glad you're getting it sorted now. When ny mother-in-law died we just went through the post and found up energy suppliers etc to tell them she had died. There was no money in her estate after paying for the funeral so the accounts were closed with no chasing (If there had been money we obviously would have paid them though).

That should say may need to apply for probate.

No probate required if estate is small.

Why would OP say there was no estate when there was enough to pay off all the debts?

Not probate. The estate isn't big enough. If SIL is distributing the estate, she should have a grant of administration. She will have signed an indemnity form for the bank, so that they are not liable for the estate being handled illegally, which is what she's done. She's legally responsible for making sure the debt gets paid.

I got a call from the pension company a few weeks after his death, and told they were transferring the money to my bank. Never heard a word about paying off debts or including the money in an estate. No family or friends mentioned it either, nor the funeral director or HA dad was living with. How would I know this?! Id never dealt with someone’s death before.

Never once got chased up, I just sent death certificates to his creditors. They never asked about an estate once just wrote off the deaths.

It seems like realistically that’s all OP would have to do but then again I’m unsure if the system has changed and there’s a way for creditors to tell if a dead person has an estate and how much?

https://www.tmsolicitors.co.uk/probate-bank-limits-2022/#:~:text=If%20probate%20is%20not%20required,will%20or%20the%20Intestacy%20Rules.

OP, she will have signed something to make her legally liable for distributing the money legally.

You'd know because you were supposed to do your research, to ensure you weren't breaking the law. You're essentially saying here that you broke the law, took money that wasn't yours, and got away with it. Nobody was 'supposed to tell you'; you were a responsible adult, if you're not sure of the law, you find out for yourself.

I drove drunk once. No police chased me, and there have been no repercussions. It doesn't mean it's right to suggest that others do the same.

(I didn't actually, it's just an example)

His only estate is the £6000 in his bank when he died (which the bank have already sent to SIL and she has split in half with my husband) and a potential £10k life insurance claim.

Youre supposed to pay all his debts from this (his estate) before you take (inherit) any of his money for yourselves.

No will at all. He was a single man with 2 DC and not a lot to his name

If there was no will the money should automatically go to his children not SIL surely?

Well I was dealing with my dad’s sudden and violent death, organising his house to be cleared out within a week, organising a funeral, giving I formation to the police and also taking care of my first newborn so pardon fucking me for not being probate superwoman and dOInG mY ReSEarCh. Not everyone is a robotic emotionless twat who copes perfectly in these situation. I shall call 101 immediately and turn myself in.

It’s laughable you’ve compared this to drink driving. How embarrassing for you.

I don’t really care that his aggressive water company didn’t get their money they hounded him for, or the Council threatening to arrest a sick man for not paying Council tax he couldn’t afford, don’t get paid. The money was far better off with me. Dad had 37p in his bank account when he died aged 57 and the pension is not something he was entitled to when he was alive. I’m not sorry for spending the money on giving my newborn a better life rather than giving it to billionaires.

Why should anyone need to tell you that debts need to be paid if there is money to pay them? Even if someone has died they have still used the services they are being billed for - surely it is just common sense that the bills need to be paid.

Also, it really is very, very, easy to research what is required after someone has died. Everyone has a first time of dealing with the finances of a person who has died, it's up to them to find out how to deal with it.

Well you would think someone would mention it - such as the company transferring money over.

Anyway looking back I had already informed utility companies etc of his death when I only thought he’d left 37p. It was a good month after his death and after his funeral that I got a call about a pension. It didn’t occur to me to pay off debts at that point - and TBH had I known, I probably wouldn’t have rang the council and said “Oh it turns out there is money can I pay it to you, people who contributed to his downfall by threatening him with prison.”

Debts are paid from the estate, including assets, savings and insurances - priority being the funeral and taxes. After that, any debts are paid - if it's possible.

If it's not possible, then creditors have to forget it.

I'm surprised the bank released the money - who had Probate, who was executor/administrator?

They should have paid as many debts as possible.

I know it's difficult - I have just had to sort out all the formalities with DH's death.

Before that, I had to administer my late Father's estate.

BUT - you have to do it. The Tax Office, the DWP and companies aren't interested in emotions.

You are given information, and they expect you to follow the steps.

Sorry for your loss.💐

@WeetabixTowels

Almost everybody dealing with an estate is traumatised by the death. Some are more traumatic and some are less traumatic than yours. You are not exempt from the law, and nor is OP, so advising her to ignore it is poor advise.

You may well think I should be embarrassed by giving another example of breaking the law, but your opinion on how I should feel is of no relevance or interest to me, nor, I suspect, to anybody else.

The fact is, you broke the law and continue to do so by not disclosing it. It was your responsibility to find out what you were legally required to do, and nobody else's duty to tell you.