Maternity leave needs to be redesigned

[PlumPudd]

Did you enjoy your maternity leave? Because I’m finding mine a challenge (50% exhaustion and terror, 30% boredom, 20% joy) and I can’t help but feel it’s something to do with the way it’s set up.

No idea what the alternative should be but surely entirely dropping entirely out of society and work for a year and having solo care of a tiny helpless lovely being who is attached to you like an oyster on a rock all the time - then doing a 180 and going back to full on work and life but still caring for your kids is not how it’s supposed to be?

Feel that in some ways (not health, sexism, life expectancy etc) things must have been better in the past, when there would be a bevy of aunties, neighbours, siblings and friends around you in your village, and you’d look after your baby but still spend a bit of your time working / cooking and share a bit of the baby care with the others there would be a bit more of a balance between babies and the rest of life.

Not articulating this very well, but somehow feel this lurching between extremes - a year of nothing but baby then back to normal - is not how it’s meant to be and not really good for anyone.

What would a better alternative look like? Is one even possible now modern society has changed so much and we live and work in different ways?

"The past" wasn't as you describe it.
I had 16 weeks maternity leave, 4 weeks full pay, then half.
Back to full-time work when DS was 6 weeks old, & he went into a day nursery full-time.
My Public Sector employer was acknowledged to be generous.

I'm a lucky one who enjoyed in because I made a lot of friends. I worked at two different primary schools for my maternity leaves and neither could afford for me to do KIT days, which was frustrating. I was jealous of lots of my friends swanning about for a couple of hours and getting paid for a full day.

I have a theory that the sudden dropping out of work is what leads a lot of women to overcomplicate baby-rearing. Everyone around me was reading so many books and articles about every last thing. How can anyone possibly write a whole book on potty training? I put the child in pants, took them to the toilet and they were dry in a few days, but friends constantly asked what method I was using. Same for weaning, or carrying the baby in a sling, or anything to do with sleep. It was exhausting to be around, but I think it was just intelligent women who suddenly had a lot of time of their hands treating looking after a baby as a new form of work.

I agree on the general point but mat leave is actually really flexible if your employer is decent. I took six months, used some of my kit days (not all, because it was during lockdown) and then used my accumulated holiday to return part time (4 days a week) before going back to full time when DS was about 14 months.

I did find mat leave quite dull but only because it was during first lockdown and I have no friends or family in easy walking distance.

You don't have to take a year? I shared leave with my DH the first time and will do again this time. I was sociable during my mat leave but by 6 months was desperate to get back to the mental stimulation of work. I wfh most of the time so I won't actually be 'leaving' the baby to go to an office each day. With my first, I only worked 3 days until they were 3 but I don't find part time work a great deal for most women so am likely not to do that this time. I'm also the higher earner so it doesn't really make sense.

I firmly believe that SPL ensures greater equality from the beginning - my DH couldn't pull the 'weaponised incompetence' line with me - I left him alone to figure out the kid!

I’m not talking about the previous generation. I’m talking about life in an agrarian or tribal society - aka the sort of environment and circumstances that humans evolved to live in.

Obviously there were huge negatives to life in those societies that some women / babies in the developed world now don’t have to deal with. Hence the reference to health outcomes, sexism, work etc. But structurally the way societies and communities were organised was probably better for raising babies in.

I gave birth in May 2020 so I did find my maternity leave a bit isolating. I went to every class I could, and most were quite nice. I made two friends who I basically spent my maternity leave with in a series of parks/ on walks/ going to classes when open.

NCT was a bit of a letdown, but it was pre lockdown and a lot of families subsequently moved away.

It was nice to have my DP working from home though. I think it helped me to see that he was working hard too, so I didn't become overly resentful when he was able to drink a warm cup of coffee etc...

That said, I did have a couple of bad experiences in some of the classes, with mums who I felt were quite cliquey, which made me feel a bit isolated and like I wasn't a good mother.

I'm pregnant again now so it will be interesting to see if things are any different this time. I'm going to take the full year again, and add my accrued leave on at the end, so I should be on leave for 13 months.

My DP's workplace has introduced parental leave recently, which means he will be off with me for about 26 weeks too, which will be lovely. Last time he was only off for 2 weeks and I became a bit overwhelmed with trying to keep on top of everything. I'm hoping that will be different this time.

I agree OP.

Mary Harrington has written a fair bit about this. About how women used to have a more gradual return to the workplace, e.g. if you are taking in needlework, you would naturally not take any at the beginning and then as your kids got more independent you'd be able to get more pieces out the door.

I think it's hard to do that in a world where everyone gets a salary instead of piecework pay (maybe some freelance/consulting jobs offer this pattern).

I think WFH jobs could work, but there'd need to be more of an acknowledgement of "yes, this new mother will be less productive" which people hate saying out loud. Part time with fixed hours doesn't really work, it's would need to be more like, you need to get xyz deliverables done today, do them when the baby is sleeping but obviously you don't know when that will be, we are flexible.

I'd love a version of "contract-for-a-company" where for 2-3 years I did deliverable-based work for my company instead of 1 year fully off then kid goes to full-time nursery.

I had my second child in Sweden and the difference in how maternity leave works is unbelievable. We got 480 (I think) days parental, which can be arranged however the parent decides, up until the child is 8 ((I think). Some of those days can be "double days' where both parents can be off.

So we both took 6 weeks of parental leave when DS was born. Then I took 3 days a week and DH took 2 until our days were used up.

My friend took 6 months off and saved the rest of their days for extended holidays over the next few years.

Hated it. Went back at four and five months.

In the past my gran was forced to resign when she got married... (Late 1950s) so not sure it was as idyllic as you think.

^This was the same for my mother. My aunt (now in her late 80's had to forego marriage and children because she was devoted to being a nurse, and marriage would have ended her career.

Plus "the village" was never as ideal as imagined. For starters the village was often poor. And have you noticed all the threads about "the village" on just this site - MIL's, SIL's, DH's, friends, teachers, they are mostly (apparently) shit help and selfish! I don't think "the village" has changed one bit - I think people are just able to be less tolerant of it.

As for employers, whilst I really do appreciate that juggling parenting and working can be really hard (and expensive) that really isn't the employers problem - they are employers in order to make a profit / deliver a service, and absolutely nothing else. It isn't that they don't care about parents. They don't care about anyone! Oh there may be degrees of "not caring", and some are better than others, or better at ticking the boxes than others. But in the end this is a capitalist society and employment is measured by productivity and profit.

I am not convinced that in the current society you will ever achieve anything other than "tinkering around the edges", but one place to start might be making men (and their employers) more responsible for childcare and parenting. I know far too many men who really see paternity leave as "extra holiday with a baby thrown in"; men and employers who think that when children are sick it's mum's job to take time off work, to do the school runs, to flex hours around childcare. If hone half of the parents can't be convinced that it is equally their job to parent, then I would question why anyone thinks the village should pitch in!

I agree with this. I had my first baby in a country where you got 6 weeks maternity leave. I would seethe when my counterparts back home would moan about the UK maternity leave when I was going to work with leaking boobs and a tender c section scar. My blood got to boiling point when people started making stupid petitions during covid to get the maternity leave extended as they didn't get the chance to take their babies to sensory classes. This angered me so much.

I've lived in a few countries which do have better return to work options, such as leaving work an hour or two earlier until the child is 1, on your full pay. Where I live now, if you go back to work before your baby is one you can use those maternity days for any reason until the child is 12.

We were in a fortunate position to be able to use a combination of shared parental leave and annual leave so that I was off for the first five months solo (minus 6 weeks of paternity leave at the very start), and then from months 5 - 9 my husband and I were both off, and then for the final three months I did a phased return to work whilst my husband was home full time. Having the time off together in the middle was really valuable, it helped me to feel less isolated and it also meant my husband was better prepared for being primary care giver during his solo stint.

I absolutely love mat leave. On my second and last now and enjoying it so much.

I love it too! As I hadn't been entitled to a proper maternity leave with my older two, I took advantage of my most recent mat leave and actually took unpaid leave to extend it. I didn't go back to work until I was totally ready.

I absolutely love mat leave too and I’m so sad I’ve only got two weeks off.

We had the glorious summer when my DS was born last year and I had my DH off work for 6 weeks initially, which I think makes the difference to my experience).

I’ve been incredibly lucky to meet some wonderful friends, visited old friends, breakfasts and lunches out, lazy newborn days watching trashy tv, swimming with my DS, visited museums, hung out with my mum and done fun days out.

I know full well that going back to work will be horrendous after a great year off, but I’m easing myself back in by doing a few days a week for 2 weeks, then full time for a month, before dropping down to 4 days a week until the end of the year. This is all done using annual leave, which I appreciate not everyone can do, but it’s worth exploring your options.

I think shared parental leave helps. No need for the mother to take a year off work if there’s a father in the picture.

It would be all so much easier now. When I had DDs I was expected to be in the office every day I was working so I was commuting 4 days a week, and was only allowed to do 4 days not 3 as I'd wanted.

I loved being at home and and would have loved to have been a SAHP until DDs were both at primary school.

Yes @Middlelanehogger!!

I guess what needs to be restructured is work and companies and our economy and childcare and maternity leave. Second wave feminism / policy makers at the time got a lot wrong by asking for women to be exactly the same as men in the workplace, when as a consequence women then joined professions and companies that had been structured around people (men) without caring responsibilities working full time out of their homes and communities, and the cost of life and mortgages then shot up account for two income families.

We absolutely shouldn’t go back to life before second wave feminism, but perhaps we need to re do it and instead of getting blind equality at work, work less and get more flexible ways to work for everyone and better ways of recognising the other ways people contribute to society, economies, communities and the future

I am not convinced that in the current society you will ever achieve anything other than "tinkering around the edges", but one place to start might be making men (and their employers) more responsible for childcare and parenting. I know far too many men who really see paternity leave as "extra holiday with a baby thrown in"; men and employers who think that when children are sick it's mum's job to take time off work, to do the school runs, to flex hours around childcare. If hone half of the parents can't be convinced that it is equally their job to parent, then I would question why anyone thinks the village should pitch in!

At least there is the possibility for shared parental leave now. As the higher earner it might have been useful to swap over a bit, and at least also let DH know what I do all day at home.

Staying at home and looking after your own baby/children is what better looks like. Unfortunately feminists in the past fighting for "women's rights" and choices" means few have a choice as it's not financially viable. Housing and other costs now assume two working parents.

The village would involve parents being away from their children for longer than 2 seconds and also actually having visitors or visiting people themselves, then there is how to escape the inlaws/grandparents unless they are useful

Also the village is spoken of when people want help from it not helping out themselves

So it all sounds great if it is all mutual and people are able to do all these paid jobs with parents having extra time off and employers/government paying for it all

I think the village thing only existed for a lucky few, and it still exists for a lucky few. In the olden days people had to take their very young children into the fields to work with them or had to leave them unsupervised. Or with the other kids. In mines and mills even 150 years ago four year olds were working, so I suppose that helped with the childcare.

Surely you can take less than a year though if you want, that is quite a long time and if you wanted a staggered start back to work that is something that you might be able to arrange depending on whether it works for your employer.

We absolutely shouldn’t go back to life before second wave feminism, but perhaps we need to re do it and instead of getting blind equality at work, work less and get more flexible ways to work for everyone and better ways of recognising the other ways people contribute to society, economies, communities and the future.

Absolutely - and it's not just a nice to have, it's something that we need to do as society, even some of the most hardened capitalists recognise it. A society where people are going to have to work for longer, into their 70s for some people. If people get paid a good wage for doing something more towards 20 hours rather than having to do 40, 60, or more hours a week to make ends meet. And also we could have almost full employment rather than so many economically inactive not through choice.

Greed is the main obstacle. Tech/AI so far has been used far to much to make things cheaper for companies and put humans out of work rather than to help humans do their work and make life easier. AI is not the main threat but greed. Look at the cost of living crisis, the uber rich are just getting richer out of it.

It's unpopular but I think a year's leave is six months too long and that fathers should have to take leave if parents decide they want the baby to be solely cared for at home, for longer.
While no employer will ever admit it, women of childbearing age are a liability in organisations where they cannot be easily replaced during their leave. This is making men more employable and also allowing men to get out of what should be their 50% responsibility for child rearing.

And I hate to say it but I do feel that individuals/couples make a choice to have a baby but then it's their colleagues who end up with additional work loads to accommodate long periods of time off. At least in workplaces where it's not easy to get temporary replacements - by the time they are trained well enough to be useful, the original worker is due back.