Children should be told to give up their seat on a bus if there's an adult who finds it harder to stand.

[DesolationRow]

I was on a packed bus today with my friend who's in her late seventies. She's not frail but is clearly an older woman who walks quite slowly and hasn't got the best balance. We were going to the seaside and as it's the first day of the school holidays there were lots of families with young children on the bus. Many of the seats were occupied by children from toddlers to early teens and absolutely none of them offered her their seat and their parents neither told them to nor offered their own seats.

Do most people now really think a child should have a seat of their own when there's someone who needs it more? If so, why?

I realise there will be some children with disabilities/ conditions that mean they do need a seat of their own but most preschool children can sit on their parents lap and most children over five can stand for a bus journey can't they?

I would definitely tell my children aged 9 and 11 to stand if an elderly person needed their seat and would expect the to be understanding in the circumstances, which I think they would. My 6 year old probably not as she is a bit unsteady but would put her on my knee if I could or stand up myself. I don't think older children should take priority over an elderly person at all.

@Cosyblankets what's that got to do with it?

You could equally say that it will likely be the 9 year old funding the 40 year old's state pension when life gets to that stage...

When I was 6 I was stood on a London bus and it breaker to avoid a cyclist and we jolted. I went flying and ended up on hosptial with a head injury and a broken arm.
I will not let my children stand on the bus. I always found the whole thing odd that we have such strong laws about car seats for crashes / accidents but then toddlers can hold balancing On a bus.

Bit off subject but I always wondered why we don’t have seatbelts on buses?

Because it's impractical and not needed.

You are far safer as a passenger on a service bus without a seatbelt than you are in a car with one.

Millions of passenger journeys every day on buses, when did you last hear of a death?

According to the stats I have just read, buses in the UK stand at 0.2 deaths per billion person miles travelled, and I would imagine those deaths are mostly people being hit by the bus.

Cars are 1.1 per billion, over 5 times as high.

Best to not look at the motorcycle stats.

Oddly enough, I did have someone die on my bus once, but it was a heart attack.

If you made seatbelts on buses compulsory you couldn't have anyone standing ever. So you'd need about 10 times the amount of buses which would never happen or no one would ever get anywhere.
Surely if you put them on buses people would then request them on trains/tubes? They bounce around a lot as well and I've seen people falling over and I've been fallen on many times on tubes by people not holding on.
Basically if a service allows people to stand on it then seatbelts are pretty much pointless. Yes you could put them on as an option but hardly anyone would use them and I can imagine they causing issues when they get broken and people start complaining about that. Also they would pretty much only be a lap belt rather than over the shoulder because they couldn't make them fit all sizes of children and adults.

@Q2C4 when they are actually paying they will have a say.
But at the minute, they're not.
If i was with a healthy 9 year old child who travelled free and there was one seat needed for an elderly person then the 9 year old would be standing.

@Cosyblankets an elderly person is likely to have a bus pass so won't be paying either.

9 year olds don't travel free . A child ticket is 20p cheaper than an adult.

Im not sure the paying argument really works (especially since over a certain age you don't pay but do need the seat!), but even if it did, where do 9 year olds travel free?

Where I am under 5s are free, over that it's ever so slightly cheaper than the adult ticket - around 40p cheaper I think, which is less than 10% cheaper so they're still paying >90% of the adult price.

But your argument is illogical, the paying is irrelevant as the elderly person won’t have paid either.

It wouldn't let me quote but that was in response to saying that the 9 yo will be contributing to the adult's pension in the future
The elderly person is in more need. Where there is a paying adult and a non paying child the healthy child should stand.
Basic manners

Children don’t even travel for free in like 95% of the country though!

Apologies if I've got it wrong with regard to the money but the simple fact remains that a healthy 9 year old should not be sitting when an elderly person is standing. That is basic manners, common courtesy call it what you like.

Apologies if I've got it wrong with regard to the money but the simple fact remains that a healthy 9 year old should not be sitting when an elderly person is standing. That is basic manners, common courtesy call it what you like.

No healthy person who is able to stand should be sitting while anyone less able to is standing. If I'm sitting on a bus, and someone who needs a seat (disabled, elderly, pregnant, injured, whatever it is) gets on, I personally wouldn't think that a child was more obligated to offer their seat than I was.

I fully agree. I would give my seat to anybody who was in more need than i was. This was in response to a pp who brought up the scenario of an adult and a child. I would never see an elderly person struggle.

@Cosyblankets you could equally well say that a 9 year old shouldn't be standing if healthy adults are sitting. The able should free up seats for the less able, regardless of age.

That's why i said a healthy 9 year old.

Surely it’s common courtesy and basic manners regardless of age though. No fit and healthy person should be taking up a seat leaving an elderly person struggling to stand, or anyone less able including disabilities and pregnancy.
It doesn’t matter if that person is 9 or 40. It’s just as rude for a healthy middle aged person to sit and leave an elderly person standing!

That is what i said in a further post.
Surely no one thinks it's OK to let vulnerable people stand. Surely we're all agreeing in a very long winded way

I don't understand this either OP, its so much easier for an able bodied child to stand than even an able bodied adult, that's before you consider they can sit on the parents lap. I'm in my 40s and kids would never sit when there were no free seats for adults on the bus, at some point there has been a shift and I don't know why.

Hmm a lot of people seem to think kids are less able to stand than adults, that's really odd. Kids have a much lower centre of gravity and find it way easier to balance, its why kids can ski without poles.

It’s not about being able to stand per se, it’s about the ability to cling on tightly enough so that you don’t get thrown dangerously around if the bus lurches or suddenly stops etc. Kids are not able to hold on as strongly because they have less grip strength. There has been a shift because we are more safety conscious than we used to be. We also don’t chuck carry cots into the passenger seats of cars anymore, for the same reason.

Surely if you put them on buses people would then request them on trains/tubes?

Doubtful since I’ve been on buses with seatbelts in Scotland and there aren’t any seatbelts on trains there. The option is there to wear them and most people don’t from what I’ve seen. Many find seatbelts uncomfortable and if it wasn’t for it being a law, and the consequences being shown when people don’t wear seatbelts, I’m doubtful many people would wear them. Look at bicycle helmets. People should wear them but since there is no law saying they have to, many don’t.

I’m unsure if it would be safer if underground trains had seatbelts in cases of emergencies with people in such close proximities.

its so much easier for an able bodied child to stand than even an able bodied adult

Is it? I've never considered myself less able to stand than an average 9 year old. I'm not saying a 9 year old can't stand, but I do object to the OP's main implication that children (and their parents) are more wrong for not standing than an adult who also doesn't offer their seat.

And what age are you talking about here? At the start of this thread I was called selfish for saying I wouldn't make my just turned 4 year old stand (I'd have her on my lap if I didn't already have my toddler there, and to be honest we could probably fit on the same seat, but hypothetically, I would not make her stand). She's tiny, wears age 2 clothes (we're a short family), and would definitely not be better at standing on a bus than an able bodied adult.