to think DP may be ND

[rougechaotic]

I've just been reading another MN post about masking that is trending and didn't want to hijack the OP's post so have started my own. The posts in response to her question really resonated with me and I think my DP may be 'masking'. (apologies if I'm not using the right terminology here or below)

In public situations / at work DP (most of the time) seems to fit in and is almost like a different person, and then it's like it all gets too much for him and as soon as he comes home he has a bit of a meltdown. It's like he finds it exhausting just existing day to day. I'm finding it really difficult to deal with. A few people have mentioned to him/me in the past that they think he might be on the spectrum and I've also thought it myself. (e.g. when we watch a film or tv, I often have to explain things that I think are really obvious - especially if there is no verbal communication / conversation between characters to explain the situation and it's based on more nuanced body language or facial expressions). He is also very strict when it comes to routine (has to go to the gym on the same days every week, even if it massively interferes with something else, has to wear the same things to the gym, has the exact same thing for breakfast every morning); is very sensitive to sounds like chewing, coughing, a small sniff, and even barely audible music from neighbours (I have to concentrate to even hear it) to the point where it makes him really angry and he will just go to bed and put earplugs in or I will eat upstairs to avoid upsetting him; and is really disturbed by certain textures when eating (e.g. hates anything mashed or any kind of soup / sauce). He has a lot of difficulty regulating his emotions - particularly when he is at home with me or in situations he finds stressful (airports, for example) and he will be set off by the smallest thing – like a check in desk opening 5 minutes late. As he has gotten older he has got increasingly anxious about social situations and he has a small group of friends that he doesn't see regularly. He also doesn't enjoy spontaneous plans and will get quite upset if things change last minute. It sometimes feels like he uses up all his 'social energy' on everything else (maybe 'masking') and I just get the meltdowns and all his frustrations. It's exhausting and I feel like it's also exhausting for him. Does this sound like he might be ND? I don't really know how to talk to him about this or if I even should. He has not reacted well when people have mentioned it in the past (although he has once said he thinks he might be too – but he didn't want to talk about it then and never brought it up again).

Yes definitely. Do you have DC? Any of them is ND?

He certainly has a lot of diagnostic features, OP. It might be worth him speaking to Occupational Health at work about getting some workplace adaptations to reduce his stress there, so he doesn’t need to mask so much and then doesn’t come home stressed and have meltdowns.
DD is autistic. Her work delivered training to her team on how to work with an autistic colleague, provided her with a “safe space” private room where she could retreat if she was having a meltdown, and got her involved in running an autism support network for neurodiverse staff. It helped her a lot.

@Rainbowpurple we don't have any DC... I'm not actually sure how he would cope with the noise / mess / inevitable chaos!

It definitely sounds like he could be ND.
Sadly it’s been seen as something to be ashamed of and maybe he’s feeling that? But if he is ND it would actually be really helpful and affirming for him to find out more about it and what it means for him and to understand himself better and why he struggles and maybe get assessed if he wants to know for sure.
can you do something like read a book and subtly leave it lying around?? I really enjoyed Neurotribes.
When we found out my DD was autistic we had a kids book about autism lying around and my mum picked it up and went “wow I recognise myself in all of this!” I’d been suspecting myself she could have ASD. She hasn’t been assessed so we don’t know for sure but she ticks a lot of boxes and it explains a lot about many of the difficulties we’d had. I felt weird raising the subject with her and the book made it a bit easier.

@Babdoc he runs his own business so it's difficult as he is the one in control of the environment. (He already works in a separate room to everyone else) He's exceptionally good at what he does and is very focused on it. I'm not sure how to help him at all if he doesn't want to talk about it though.

Doesn't he want to understand where his struggle actually comes from? Diagnosis is the first step, and there will be loads of tools available for him to navigate his daily struggles. There is nothing wrong with being ND, he will find it liberating actually knowing what causes him to feel anxious daily. Good luck!

Are you happy to not have children?

@howtowriteahaiku That's actually quite a good idea. I definitely think there he does feel shame (it would explain his anger when people have suggested it previously) and he has a real drive for everything to be perfect (or at least present perfectly to everyone apart from me!) I feel a bit like I'm a 'safe space' where he can just let go of everything but I'm struggling more and more with it. I might have a look at the book you suggested

@Rainbowpurple I think he sees it as a 'failure' (I know it's not! and I feel like life would be so much easier for him if he explored why he feels the way he feels) but he is so against being seen as a failure in any way that I don't even know how to approach it. I liked the PP suggestion of me reading a book and that becoming a point of discussion

@OhComeOnFFS I would desperately love to have children but there are other issues at play (infertility). That's not what this thread is about though...

@howtowriteahaiku I've just bought a copy of Neurotribes - it looks like a great book! Thank you for the recommendation

My DS is ND. Extremely bright, well mannered, and kind soul but when he is done masking, he can be so so hard work and explosive at home. His diagnosis was a godsend to us to fully embrace his success ( he is gifted in math) and struggles ( explosive meltdown and social anxiety). Your DH needs to come out of the stigma attached to ND. It is hard of course. He also needs to be a driving force in this as he should respect your struggles to see him struggling. I do gatekeep and make sure my DS gets right support because I am his mum but you are not. You should be a supportive partner but also need to be supported by him.

Good luck!

@Rainbowpurple "Extremely bright, well mannered, and kind soul but when he is done masking, he can be so so hard work and explosive at home." This part of your post has hit home very hard. This is exactly like my DP – he's very gifted in a particular area and very bright, but his struggles are really affecting both of us. I'm not sure he understands how much they affect me. He can also say things that are hurtful / dismissive but I don't think he understands why they are hurtful to me. It's difficult as I think he was 'masking' at the beginning of our relationship and the more comfortable he has gotten with me the more I've become a safe space where he doesn't have to mask (the noise sensitivity, the meltdowns etc). I often feel like I'm walking on eggshells trying not to trigger a meltdown. I've bought the book that the previous poster recommended and I'm going to read it and try to use it to start a conversation with him.

Yes my DS only really melts down in front of ( or literally to) me because I am his safe place. He to a degree even masks with DH as he thinks he needs to put up some sort of work. DS said it is exhausting and a lot of hard work. He is perfectionist too like your DH and goes over the same things (assignment, homework whatever) again and again and when I say it is good enough, completely flips out. He said it is quite physical to be ND, really disorientating and confusing which triggers his anxiety a lot out of home.

If your DH is similar to my DS, he was very much intrigued about neurodiversity when we started to look into it together. As he is bright and super inquisitive lad, he finds his brain fascinating to be wired differently. I used his curiosity to my advantage to get him to realise his differences and encourage him to use his coping mechanism. It is long and hard road but he now accepts his ND and reads enthusiastically about the topic.

Does he have a man cave in the house? Somewhere he can go to decompress on his own without worrying about masking in front of you? I'm thinking...dark room, preferably even "dead-sounding" (ie not a lot of shiny surfaces, so that high-frequency echoes go away) and with little in the way of external interruptions etc?

One hugely important part of my journey was talking it through with DP so that we both understood that my alone time is actually necessary - not a personal slight in terms of "I don't want to be around you right now", but rather "I need to recharge, and I can only do that on my own...I'll be back as soon as I can give you my full attention without you worrying about whether I'm OK".

Bearing in mind, of course, that if he's ND he likely won't be aware that he's masking, just that interacting with you when he's already drained will feel kinda stressful and usually goes wrong.

I have no idea how you'd approach it with him without the initial trigger of him looking into autistic late-presentation though; worth noting that all the videos on YouTube describing "autism in women" pretty accurately describe late-presentation in men too, which can be off-putting for a lot of men (meaning that they don't watch the videos because the titles themselves are exclusionary).

@ntmdino for most of our relationship we have been living in a fairly small apartment – which means that we are on top of each other a lot of the time... as you can imagine it doesn't exactly help the situation! We are actually moving to a much larger place next month though, and he will have an office that is just his, where he can go to decompress and get away from everything. I'm hoping it helps a lot. At the moment, he comes home from work / out (ie. situations where he's masking) and there is nowhere for him to go apart from the sofa / dining table (which are very close together) and he gets very aggravated if I walk behind him.. I have no issues with him having his own space to go to and think it would be hugely beneficial (for both of us!)

"I have no idea how you'd approach it with him without the initial trigger of him looking into autistic late-presentation though" – This is the main thing I'm worried about. The more I look into it (and read the responses here) the more sure I am that he is ND. I want to help him, but have zero idea how to go about it without triggering him or him interpreting it as me criticising him or his behaviours somehow (despite understanding obviously being the way forward to managing it for both of us!) I'm going to read the book the PP suggested and hopefully it offers up some ways into a conversation about it.

This is purely based on my experience with my autistic DH, but I think subtlety is key here. I would have got nowhere if I’d suggested that he might be autistic. He had to come to that conclusion himself.

I think the key is for you to read up about ND and talk about that in a neutral way, i.e. don’t ask him if he thinks he might be ND, but talk about some of the challenges ND people face and get him to conclude for himself if he relates to that or not. Chris Packham did an excellent series about autism a few months ago. That’d be worth watching together, if that’s something that’d appeal to both of you.

Diagnosis would probably benefit both of you, but then again it’s is not always an easy process. Apart from the problems getting a diagnosis in the first place, my DH spent almost two years afterwards re-assessing and making sense of his life to date. He’s in a much better place now. He knows how to work with, rather than against how his head is wired up and he’s a real autistic advocate. But getting to that point has taken so much time and energy. His life would have been so much easier if he’d been diagnosed at a young age 😔

I cant see why you'd want to stay with someone who acts like this and you have to walk on eggshells around yet doesn't want to discuss it or find a diagnosis/resolution. If you hadn't mentioned potential ND on this thread then people would be saying that's abuse run for the hills! Let alone the fact he won't want children/won't be able to cope with children. Honestly I'd consider if you want to mother this man for the rest of your life or try to conceive with him, it's no way to live.

It's precisely this attitude that creates the stigma around being ND in the first place - which is exactly why most late-diagnosed folk resist diagnosis! We've experienced the complete and utter rejection that goes with being ND, so we damn-near kill ourselves trying to appear "normal", and then when the strain gets too much the reaction is, "I'm leaving, you're awful!" - and, in a marriage, the stakes are far higher and the fear of rejection is so much more intense. Not exactly solving any problems, is it?

OP is doing exactly the right thing - trying to be understanding of someone she loves, and trying to help. It's a very difficult journey to begin, for both parties, but it has to start somewhere. I was incredibly resistant for nearly 20 years, during which time my other half would jokingly drop things into conversation in a light-hearted, non-threatening manner. Eventually, over lockdown, I realised how much easier my life was without the social pressures, and at the same time the YouTube algorithm started chucking autism-related videos at me. Eventually...I joined a Discord group attached to one of those channels, and suddenly felt like I'd found my tribe.

@rougechaotic - perhaps you could join a Facebook group for autistic folk, or a Discord (like I did), and just ask for the stories of how they started on the journey? None of us will be able to tell you how best to approach it, but we'll all be able to tell you how we got started. Ultimately, you know your DH better than any random voice on the Internet, but one of them might trigger an idea for you (or, if you're really lucky, a pattern may emerge for you).

*apologies, I assumed marriage (getting threads mixed up)

i hope you enjoy the book! It’s been a while since I read it but one thing it does is really affirm the fact that we’re not all the same and some brains work differently sometimes in the most beautiful and incredible ways. I went away feeling so encouraged that it’s ok if I’m not always “normal” and actually humans have far more variety than our society gives space to. I would hope your dh would maybe read it and feel less pressure to be the same as everyone, and also understand that being different and being ND does not make you a failure, far from it.
there’s also space for you to let him know when the timing is right that he does need to look at this because if it’s left unaddressed it will affect your relationship more and more and it will be damaging. If he is ND he can’t put his head in the sand at the expense of his relationship and expect you to be “dumped on” so definitely have some boundaries about what you’re prepared to put up with, you can support him while at the same time letting him know when he’s crossing a line by not taking your needs into account.

Thats fine if your other half was willing to put up with you for 20 years fighting against your resistance to diagnosis due to love but not everyone would want to live like that plus miss out on the chance of having children. That's what I'm saying, he also in general doesn't sound very pleasant to be around regardless of any potential ND - people with ND can be twats in personality as much as NT people - he might just be unpleasant as well as ND it is possible!

That might be valid, if you assumed that the OP had listed the entirety of their lives, and it's all bad. To get to your conclusion, you have to assume that a) it's always been this bad, and b) there have never been any positives.

That's not the context of this post, though, is it? As far as I can tell, OP has listed only the negative effects which might indicate a ND condition, and actively wants to help him. Repeating the AIBU war-cry of "LEAVE HIM!" isn't helpful to that end, and requires wilfully ignoring the "as he has gotten older" part - meaning it wasn't always this way. As has been noted in the masking thread, one significant feature of late-presenting autism is that it becomes increasingly difficult to keep up the facade as we get older, which lines up very well with this.

But that's pretty much beside my point - that folk like you, who promote intolerance of anybody struggling with undiagnosed autism vs the world and recommend dumping anybody who's having trouble with it, are precisely why we resist diagnosis. Less of that attitude, and maybe the world might change to the point where there's less resistance.

What's hilarious is that you assume that of me when in fact I'm a late on (age 40) now diagnosed ADHD person! And I sought diagnosis by having an open conversation with my husband who I love and respect and would never want him to walk on eggshells with me, then sought diagnosis myself without any hassle to him, I think sought and paid for extra help to get me a stable plain where I am today. My point still stands, he could mostly just be acting a twat regardless of any potential ND and she should consider whether she wants to stay and waste her childbearing years chasing him for diagnosis whilst putting up with meltdowns and walking around on eggshells. I didn't just say - LTB with no context.

@NoTMyNamea there's always one on AIBU... as @ntmdino has explained far more eloquently than I ever could, the purpose of this thread is to ask for advice about how to talk to my DP about potentially being ND so that he can get the support that he needs to be happy and so there are less stresses on us as a couple. I have outlined the symptoms of his potential ND to get proper advice. I haven't included all the other aspects of our life as they are not really relevant to this discussion. We have been together almost 12 years and there have been plenty of really lovely times and when he is not feeling overwhelmed by everything else, he has many, many good qualities. If you actually bothered to read my posts in their entirety, you would also see that we have infertility issues. I'm not 'wasting my childbearing years' we are, together, dealing with something challenging that to be perfectly honest has nothing to do with this thread and is completely irrelevant.

@ntmdino It's really interesting that you're saying that masking gets harder as people get older. He is approaching 40 and we have been together around 12 years – it's become way more apparent in the past few years. I think the best approach is a subtle one and if I start by reading some books and understanding more then I can gently start talking about things a neutral way, open up discussions around what I'm reading etc (as @SparkleHard has suggested).

@howtowriteahaiku this book sounds like exactly what I'm after! And I 100% agree with this "If he is ND he can’t put his head in the sand at the expense of his relationship and expect you to be “dumped on” so definitely have some boundaries about what you’re prepared to put up with," – I think by arming myself with knowledge I can put myself in a better position to do this!

Is there a board on MN for discussions around subjects like this? You have (mostly! 😂) been really supportive and helpful and I feel a lot less alone just by reading these posts.