to not understand the concept of masking

[tattooedteagal]

I'm trying to understand better due to my son's autism, but the notion of masking ADHD or autism doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Surely if you understand social cues enough to put on a convincing facade throughout your childhood or adulthood, it contradicts one of the core definitions of autism. Feel free to correct me. I'm not saying I'm right (I'm probably wrong) I'm just struggling to understand.

I have ADHD and it was picked up on when I was 14 so I'm obviously crap at masking. It's caused me a lot of issues and I don't want to gatekeep ADHD, but it annoys me when people think they might have it because they get irritated at slow drivers or have a clutter drawer in their house.

I have ADHD and tend to copy whoever I'm with, apart from close family and friends who I know accept and understand my quirks.

It's exhausting and I find it hard to know the real me because I play so many different characters. I feel uncomfortable and awkward because I'm not being myself and it makes me not want to socialise as much.

I always preferred to socialise when alcohol was involved because it made me relaxed and not worry so much.

Please stop saying things like this. It's so offensive and dismissive of how disabling autism can be, regardless of how "mild" it appears. I cause myself enormous discomfort by masking so just because neurotypical people experience my autism mildly, that does not make it mild to me.

"The spectrum" is not a linear scale and it applies only to autistic people. It's a binary: you are either autistic or you are not. If you are, you are 100% autistic regardless of how it presents or whether your support needs are fairly low or very high.

And if this explanation isn't clear enough, I've also attached a meme.

It's more imitating the behaviour without really understanding why everyone is behaving that way.

You just fake it. I remember being in a group & being told 'put your game face on' about 10 years ago & realising I knew exactly what that meant because I'd always done it. I've had a recent diagnosis (April) & now understand why I'm constantly exhausted. I try so hard to fit in & be 'normal' & it's bloody hard work.

Haven't rtft but I have ADHD and it's just covering over the symptoms to appear normal. It is very stressful and takes a lot of energy. For me it's stuff like arriving somewhere an hour early just to be sure I'm on time, or setting alarms in 5 minute increments to make sure I get the kids fed and dressed and on time for school. It's basically putting up a front for the world and it's not natural and is exhausting.

It’s like playing a role but without really knowing why except that everyone tells you what the “right” answer ought to be. It’s exhausting constantly second guessing your instinctive reactions and working out you’ve been told you ought to do or say in the past. And often you told different “right” answers by different people so you have to actively consider which one to choose and then wait for the potential negative response if you picked wrong… All whilst not really understand why everyone else has to be so odd!!! And this is just to deal with casual encounters in my village shop. It’s painful and leaves me so tired. All you “normal” people ought to just chill out and stop being so stupidly weird about how I answer totally unnecessary small talk.

"it’s just when it starts affecting your day to day life there’s an issue."

I guess it did for me the other day when people saw me doing it. I'm still pretty certain I don't have ADHD though.

If you'll forgive the flippancy, it's getting up and thinking just before you walk into work 'OK, time to come across as something resembling a vaguely functioning human being'.

When you're sitting at your desk and people are thundering into your office and instead of yelling 'fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off' you put your best smile on and say 'Hello - what can I do for you?' as responding to their query about something work related is a safe subject you can deal with. Except if they are just being friendly and asking how your weekend was, you're thinking 'What? Why? What's it got to do with you? Why are you telling me about your weekend? Go away? I don't care'. Then you have to remind yourself talking about your weekend is what people do. 'It was very peaceful, thanks. Yours sounds lovely....have you been there before?' because they can carry on talking about it and you don't have to share your Sunday spent cataloguing every houseplant you own and their lifecycle and leaf pattern stalk by stalk' (figuratively speaking, going into excessive detail about any subject would substitute for the description of houseplants).

It's when you are aware that you're repeatedly tapping and wiggling your foot because you are stressed, so you try and stop to avoid making the people who declare themselves to have misophonia wanting to hit you, so you try to silently move your hand around instead where it can't be seen, as you know that also irritates people.

It's when you might make a joke that if anybody wants you, you'll be under your desk rocking, they laugh, but in truth, that's actually your 2nd most desired outcome after getting up, running out the door and never, ever coming back but you know you need the money and therefore you have to let them think you're fine. with the mess, the constant noise and distraction.

It's when you really want to talk about your interests, but also know that this can result in a deluge of information about them that people don't tend to want, so you hold back even when they're talking about the same subjects - and worst of all, what they're saying is WRONG. So you have to walk away and avoid them as much as possible in future because you really, really want to put them straight but really, really, really need this job and getting into an argument about Star Trek TOS isn't really going to help you be popular in the office when you're coming to the end of your Probationary Period.

It's also when somebody says 'Oh, you are so good with x person who only ever wants to talk about their dog' and you smile, but you're thinking 'I'd far rather being talking with them about dogs all day than ever have to sit through a 20 lunchbreak with you going on about Love Island/children/etc. Well, actually, I'd rather be with dogs all day than have to put up with people at all because at least you know where you are with animals, they don't lie to you like humans do. But dogs don't need IT systems/bank accounts/housing advice, so I'm stuck with them if I want to be able to afford food'.

It's all those things you may try to do that you're doing deliberately to come across as not weird/dislikeable/difficult/annoying and it's all those things that you try to keep control over and not do because you've learned that people see to find them really annoying, distracting, irritating or outright get angry with you for doing.

@amusedbush
"The spectrum" is not a linear scale and it applies only to autistic people. It's a binary: you are either autistic or you are not. If you are, you are 100% autistic regardless of how it presents or whether your support needs are fairly low or very high.

Where does this leave the wider autism phenotype people?
I disagree with this black and white idea. I'm diagnosed with autism (as an adult) and one of the things they talked about was how it needs to have had an impact on your life for diagnosis. So if some situational things had been different for me, I'd not have been diagnosed.
The people I get on best with are people who are maybe a bit more thoughtful than average, often creative, and who may have the odd hint or two of an autism trait but not enough to get diagnosed, and not causing problems in their life. I don't want to give my life story, but it would be very easy for me to have been like them if my start in life had been different. I don't feel like I'm "masking" in social interactions, but I don't like some of the more complex social rules (where people are treated differently because of group dynamics, usually ruled over by someone unpleasant. People are not very fair.) I absolutely spot them, just don't agree with them! And avoid people who play these playground games.

I think that it's not a spectrum, but a complex patchwork of different traits. Enough of certain traits and we call it autism. But it's so poorly defined and understood, given how different autistic people can be. But I've always felt I'm very much on the borderline between diagnosis or not (confirmed by those who diagnosed me) and feel most comfortable around others in this vague area, or with hints of other ND.

I thought everyone did this to a certain degree

On the more/less, severe/milder autism...
I read somewhere (maybe on MN) that the extent of the autism is judged on how far it inconveniences other people.

When I received my diagnosis I reassured the clinical psychologist that I would have no problem telling people I was autistic, but sometimes I felt guilty doing so as many autistics have to 'Sit under a sheet'. She said 'But it has devastated your life!' Even though outsiders can't see that, even though my autism might appear 'mild' or perhaps I'm 'high functioning' and have an impressive IQ, it is actually quite extreme. The reason most people don't see that is that I avoid them.

Really interesting replies. I feel like I understand masking a lot better now. I grew up with an autistic brother who literally cannot mask to save his life (he's actually been punched in the face for his raw honesty) so the way I understood autism was anecdotal. My understanding of masking seemed to contradict the whole "theory of mind" explanation of autism which explains a lot of my brother's actions. Reading these replies have been eye-opening, especially the analogy of not understanding the joke but laughing anyway because that's what other people are doing

I have to remind myself to let other people talk and that people don't necessarily want to hear about my latest hyperfixation. I find it easy to chat to people but sometimes I feel like I'm faking or toning myself down so they don't find me "too much". But (I think) I can read people well and I do enjoy social events. I'm sometimes aware of eye contact but I'm rarely uncomfortable. I do have executive functioning issues though and intense special interests. I feel immature for my age and get on best with other ND people. But according the DSM I'm not autistic!? Just ADHD.

In reply to a pp, my teacher wanted me assessed for ADHD in 2004 because my symptoms were obvious to him. My parents refused the assessment and said I didn't have ADHD because I didn't "run around at home". I sat in my room for hours on end gaming or coding. I ended up dropping out of sixth form and going through several jobs because I got bored quickly. It's severely impacted my life which is why I feel kinda resentful about all those social media clips ascribing generic traits (like a messy wardrobe) to having ADHD.

When I read this type of thread so much of it sounds like me - I can't decide if this means I am actually autistic. I knock along ok in my life but partly through me arranging my life in that way. So I don't do any domestic organisation at all as my spouse doesn't really work. And I have a job where it's pretty accepted that I am a bit odd.

If someone meets all of the criteria for an autism diagnosis and these traits have been present for pretty much their whole life, then they are autistic. If they don't meet the criteria, it's highly likely to be something else.

If someone has sensory differences but no communication difficulties, it's sensory processing disorder rather than autism. If someone struggles socially but can communicate and has no sensory differences, it's probably social anxiety. If someone needs rigid routines and engages in repetitive behaviours but has no difficulties with communication, it could be OCD. Autistic traits can also look similar to behaviour caused by acquired brain injury, or trauma responses, or a personality disorder (like EUPD, aka Borderline Personality). If someone demonstrates some autistic-like behaviours from one of the diagnostic categories but not all of them, then they're simply not autistic.

However, more and more people are describing the autistic spectrum as a sort of patchwork or like a colour wheel, with each segment representing a skill. Each person's colour wheel will look different as they have different areas that they are good at or struggle with

@amusedbush No, they don't. My son struggles in all areas. He isn't 'good' at any of them.

He doesn't have any social hang ups, for example, I'll give you that. But he is profoundly autistic so that translates to being perfectly comfortably naked in public, trying to undress in public and thinking nothing of it, etc etc.
Smearing, all things he doesn't give a shit about. So yes he would score better for social hang ups but do you see how that works out?

There needs to be a defined way to describe someone as disabled as him

if you don't understand the concept of masking OP then there is always google for you, rather than post a goady thread dismissing autistic people who've had to mask their entire lives so they don't get bullied/injured by others.

There is no such thing as 'severe' autism, it's just a question of how any particular individuals autism presents. It's not a sliding scale of severity, hence why it's also impossible for anyone to be 'more' autistic than anyone else.

All you were witnessing in those children was the gamut of Autistic behaviours, some of which obviously cause more distress and disfunction than others.

Also, the group of children you are talking about are a separate group to the previous poster I responded to, so I never implied any of your group must have comorbid learning difficulties in the first place. I'm not even sure why you are presenting the specific example of the non-verbal but perfectly intelligent child as a counter to anything I suggested, because that's quite clearly a typical autistic child with no apparent learning difficulty, which at no point have I suggested doesn't exist.

I don't know if you've simply misunderstood something I've posted, but you are telling me I'm 'wrong' about a point I have never made in the first place.

absolutely zero mention of the autistic children I have worked with who could never even understand the terms she used let alone run a course. That are non verbal, smear their faeces, become aggressive when overwhelmed, have incredibly limited diets etc

This was the post I was responding to in the part of my post that you have quoted. That is quite clearly not the same as the non-verbal but otherwise perfectly intelligent child with no comorbidities you are positing as an example.

Really unnecessary, whilst I don’t deny there’s goading about ASD on here it’s getting to the point where any mention of neurodivergence is considered ‘goading’ or taken offence to. The op has adhd which also requires masking, it’s just usually dismissed a hell of a lot more than ASD is. A bit like you’ve done here, maybe people with adhd feel they get dismissed so much about what is and isn’t their condition that they don’t even know what is masking and what is typical anymore.

Same for me! My son was 13 at the time and it was his educational psychologist who mentioned to me that it runs in families when I said that I do the things too.

@FannyJoan Sorry if you think that was my intention because it wasn't.

My brother's autism has affected his ability to find a job, make friends, drive, find a place of his own, etc., So it intrigues me when people talk about masking because it appears they have a better understanding of social conventions than he ever had. Also, my son is on the spectrum so I'm naturally interested in hearing other people's experiences so I can understand him better. I don't want to dismiss anyone, I just want to understand.

@WimbledonHasselhoff - "I disagree with this black and white idea. I'm diagnosed with autism (as an adult) and one of the things they talked about was how it needs to have had an impact on your life for diagnosis. So if some situational things had been different for me, I'd not have been diagnosed."

This is the problem with clinical diagnosis of a physical condition - autistic brains have an excess of synaptic connections, as has been demonstrated by MRI scans; it is a black-and-white condition with no grey areas, you're either autistic or you aren't because autistic brains are physically different from NT brains. The problem is that it's reallybloodyexpensive to diagnose people that way, not least because there are so few people in the world capable of diagnosing with that method that it's just not done (this is a fairly recent discovery).

Clinical diagnosis is, basically, just guesswork with a headstart. It also doesn't help that the people writing the definitions are themselves clinicians, which completely muddies the waters.

For what it's worth, the last criterion - a significant negative impact on your life - was the biggest reason that I put off being assessed, because my natural tendency was to minimise the impact it had...or, to put it another way, to mask it. It was only when the assessor suggested we both write a list of how we thought it had impacted my life and I read DP's list that I realised exactly the massive and pervasive extent to which I was affected with an NT perspective as the baseline.

Have you ever done any of the online tests? A few of these are used in the actual assessments.
If you scroll down on this link you will see the AQ questionnaire and lots of others.
embrace-autism.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/

it isa black-and-white condition with no grey areas, you're either autistic or you aren't because autistic brains are physically different from NT brains

This is fascinating - have there been people discovered to be misdiagnosed with MRI?

I watched a video about the study during my might-be-autistic journey - apparently, it nearly broke the study because the results made absolutely no sense, until they discovered that half of the non-autistic control group actually were autistic, just heavy-masking undiagnosed!

Have you ever done any of the online tests? A few of these are used in the actual assessments. If you scroll down on this link you will see the AQ questionnaire and lots of others

Thank you, just did this now and got 39 which the quiz says indicates the presence of autistic traits. I am so torn about whether to look more into this. I struggled hugely as a kid but seem to have managed to make my life work quite well now so maybe I shouldn't rock the boat. Sorry to hijack thread!

Even those questions some were so interesting - like the one about whether people tell me I keep going on about the same thing. They used to certainly but I am now better at shutting up about my latest "thing"/ have outlets on the internet where I can speak to like-minded people/ now only have friends who are tolerant of my obsessions.