Is it really that hard.....? 🤔

[StillGotBabyBrain]

My family is vegan, not a massive deal.

When the school has events, no vegan option, so everyone gets a bbq or food catered and we don't. Not even a dairy free alternative for hot drinks! (Primary school, high school is better).

When they go for sleepovers I get worried parents asking me what should they do, can I provide food and drinks for them...

Pubs and restaurants barely cater for adults let alone add options for the kids menu.

Went to a choir meeting the other week, nothing I could eat from the food included in my ticket price.

Am I being unreasonable thinking it's really not that difficult to provide bread and houmous or vegetable dishes? They're suitable for everyone, so isn't a waste of food! Blows my mind.

I don't understand this at all, it's so easy now! Whenever I have vegan or just dairy free friends over I always make or source a few things they can eat, there are so many choices now and easy recipes? Although I have an allergy myself so maybe I'm more used to dealing with it.
I think it's a poor show to be honest. Fine to check if there's particular things or brands they might like (playdates and sleepovers) but unless it's a life threatening allergy, I think it's a bit low effort to be honest.

I hate to be a haven’t RTFT idiot but it was making me unreasonably angry. I’m a ‘cater for everyone’ type of person. But you are making some hideous statements. Houmous and bread is fine for everyone! Not if you’re gluten free like so many, or allergic to sesame like my daughter (who is also allergic to milk, fish, many nuts, and previously coconut). I’m not talking dodgy tummy. I’m talking full blown anaphylactic allergic. And people CBA to cater for her and we don’t expect them too. Veganism is a lifestyle choice whatever you say about it. My father in law is Muslim. He would not eat pork or drink alcohol if it was the only thing available, he’d rather die. Would you rather die than eat cheese? I bet you’d eat it. If my daughter ate it, she probably would die. I’m sure I’ve already lost you. Enjoy your moral high horse, wish we had your options. Also to state you can never offend someone by not eating meat my husband refused to eat the sacrificial lamb in Iran and hundreds of people were extremely offended!!

Also good points @aveline161

My Best Friend growing up was allergic to eggs and dairy. It's amazing how inclusive we could be. She went vegan recently as to her it was just the meat too!

I think people don't realise how many foods are in fact vegan anyway. My biscuits are for example because I don't use eggs or dairy in them but I don't think people would view them as vegan. I'm surprised that BBQ doesn't have veggie burgers in vegan buns though. That's really poor. I wonder if you're just asking the wrong questions as in Is that Vegan? Rather than Does that bread have dairy in it?

I don't think you're being at all unreasonable to expect to be catered for personally. As for if any "personal taste" catering was being done for anyone else there (eg reflecting religious requirements - such as halal) then there would most certainly be "Words" of "Why have you catered for them - but not for me?" and I would expect them to stop catering for other minority requirements if they wouldnt cater for mine - it's either everyone is catered for specially as required or no-one (ie no picking and choosing about it - and catering for some, but not others). Having said that - I'm vegetarian and moving towards vegan personally and I take an overall tolerant stance of "You do you and I'll do me" and other people can eat what they please for themselves personally. I've even had a friend that occasionally stays at my place ask if it's okay if he cooks meat for himself in my kitchen - and he gets the response "Cook what you want - as long as you don't expect me to eat it too". Even before I was vegetarian I would (and still do) turn round to anyone I'm inviting for a meal and say "Is there anything you can't or won't eat?" and then I make sure I don't do it. I've left out peppers (because of allergy), I've done vegan (because they're vegan). I take the view there's no point in preparing food for someone that they won't eat - so I do something that's suitable for them. I guess the only positive take you can have on anyone who cba to cater is to think "Well - at least I've found out what they're like as a person quite early on - so at least I know from here on in" and I don't say it/but I bear in mind "Oh they're the person who cba to do anything that's not what they personally want and don't care if that means I have to go hungry". It is a very useful tool for judging character - I even found out what my own brother and sister-in-law are like from their wedding reception booked months in advance at a posh hotel - and I RSVP'd saying I was coming and just matter-of-factly stating "Vegetarian option please for the meal". Come the (sit-down) meal - and there was absolutely nothing for me at the fish course and I was given a cheese omelette with the same cooked veg. as everyone else when they were having a posh meat course. That was a very useful lesson in what my brother/wife were like that showed up their characters very clearly to me - and proved to be very accurate at telling me what they were like in the event.

Ugh. These threads always go the same way.

Vegan: WHY won't people make vegan food for me
Everyone: Well, it's quite a lot of extra work and it doesn't taste great
Vegan: NO you're wrong, it's easy and delicious
Everyone: Honestly we find it fussy and not great-tasting
Vegan: What are you talking about it's zero extra effort, gourmet and a lot healthier than your cancer-causing diet. Why are you so horrible
Everyone: We're not horrible we just can't be bothered with the faff of catering to self-chosen minority diets HTH
Vegan: WAAAAAH VALIDATE MY LIFESTYLE YOU FLESH-EATING ASSHOLES
Everyone: And this is why people find vegans so tiresome
Vegan: Thank you for validating my people that people are horrible and I am morally superior goodbye

my belief that people are horrible

Vegans are really well catered for in the majority of places now, but there will be times you have to provide for yourself. At least if you accidentally eat a non vegan product you won't be ill, its much worse for many people with food allergies Even food that's sold as vegan often comes with a warning that its not suitable for those with egg/dairy allergies due to these being present in the kitchen....
Same with being coeliac, lots of gluten free menus but many come with a "not suitable for coelics due to cross contamination risks" warning.
So if its a lifestyle choice or fad diet your fine, but if its a genuine medical need then you can't eat anywhere. It can be extremely frustrating when it's beyond your control, and without sounding rude, it's hard to have much sympathy for someone who complains because they restrict themselves by choice and still have more options than I do 🤷🏻‍♀️

It may not feel restrictive for you, because you are used to catering for it. It's much, much more hassle for me to cater for than veggie or nut-free.

My default meals are often nut or meat free, but almost never vegan.

For example, for breakfast I had granola and toast - both homemade but contain honey and butter.

Lunch included cheese sandwiches, yoghurt, pate and ham. Plus butter again in the bread.

Dinner tonight was veggie but again contained cheese.

I'd have to make a real effort to think of what lunch food was ok for a vegan. Of course I'd make the effort for a friend, but it definitely would be an effort.

I once made a roast for six people including one veggie and failed to remember that I shouldn't roast the veg in lard.

I'd certainly be checking with the parents what food was ok, but you seem to object to that too.

My vegetarian friend laments the fact that most pubs now do a vegan option but not a vegetarian option. She doesn't like the fact that so much '"so called plant food' mimics a meat dish.

Does that mean you would provide visiting children with dairy and /or meat products?

Some Anti-vegans are being dickheads here. I reckon you could have risen above it though and still been passionate and polite about your cause. You have been posting like a dick for some time now and are sounding like a vegan cliche.

Shame. Veganism is an important movement and would benefit from intelligent and calm advocates.

Erm it's your choice though.

I'm not vegan or vegetarian and do not relate to the 'everyone' part of your dialogue.

Vegans/vegetarians have chose than diet because it is very important to their personal beliefs.

I guarantee no one would serve a Muslim a bacon sandwich because they chose that religion, would they? I'd imagine people would be respectful and provide an alternative. I do not see the difference here. Neither are not eating certain products because of an allergy.

From my perspective, I'm quite happy to cater to friends and diatery requirements/preferences

I'm sure a lot are however the tricky part with vegans is there typically is the vegans who are happy to do their best avoiding meat products
And there are vegans who care about every little thing and it can be stressful in those situations
For example someone said about a knife that touched meat at some point
Then plastic isn't vegan
If they want to provide drinks, even water bottles typically come in plastic
Some supermarket vegetables come in plastic packaging
What about printer ink? A lot again isn't vegan
You then have to worry about labels on any product
So a lot people could be just worried about getting it wrong or that they might forget something so they feel like it's better not to do it

A lot of places in terms of pubs and restaurants typically now have at least one if not couple of vegan options so they're doing better
It does probably depend a little on where you live however and what you have available

I think those comments were from non vegans about vegans.

I've never heard a vegan say they won't use plastic etc.

Very good points.

I do not pay for the harm of animals. That's completely against my belief.

I do think catering for a vegan is different to catering for someone like a Muslim though, in terms of practicality. To cater for a peanut allergy or Muslim you only have to avoid peanuts or pork. The average meal probably doesn't include those anyway. But to cater for vegans you have to remove all meat, all fish, all dairy, eggs, honey - massive food groups which most people will not be effortlessly able to whip up a tasty meal without.

Morally, I also see a difference between diets based on belief vs diets for medical reasons, ie peanuts will kill me.

I've never found it particularly difficult catering for vegans but then the quality of my catering is not particularly high. Our local delicatessen does a good range of plant-based ready meals and there's always salad.

I tend to do vegan food at kids' parties... I've found jam sandwiches (without butter and gf bread if coeliac), pom bears and carrot sticks to be a fairly inclusive, if basic, menu. Making sure the right party bag gets to the right child is a bigger challenge.

We don't kill insects, I will swat mosquitos and gnats away, I don't want to be feasted on either. I put spiders somewhere safe if they're out and about they might get hurt, like in the shower etc. As you said, mice and rats can be dealt with humanely by moving them on and not leaving food out which is why they normally come.

Fleas and cockroaches, we all eat lots of garlic, I've not had fleas around the place and never seen a cockroach! If they did somehow infest my house, I'd have to explore the options, again, I wouldn't allow things to be a health hazard to us all. I think there might be alternatives that don't mean killing them, never researched it though.

My son is really reactive to wasps and bee stings, so we remove them as soon as they come in, but gently without hurting them.

I have seen one vegan let mice and things live in their home, but that got out of hand and the council got involved. I always think that there's enough of the world for us all to have a home. As long as the creatures aren't going to damage us, they can stay.

Spiders are nice, I leave their webs up so I don't have to clean the ceilings

The only way farmers can produce arable crops is by the use of pesticides. Animals are killed and habitats are destroyed no matter what food is being produced. Without animal agriculture, artificial fertilizer has to be used. Unless you are completely self sufficient you are just as guilty as the rest of us.

I think that organic farming uses techniques such as crop rotation, natural pest repellents and companion planting to farm.

Organic farming can use a range of less than 15 pesticides in very strict conditions.

I watched a good documentary about farming techniques called kiss the ground. Was very insightful into how the way arable farming is done largely is causing biodiversity loss, and eventually desertification.

If you're not killing everything that is in the ground, you do not need to keep upping the fertiliser. The earth gives us all we need, we need to interfere much less.

I have a lovely allotment plot and do not use bought pesticides or fertiliser. We have a good compost system and that works wonders. I use the weeds I pull up, in water then out on the ground. Planting of flowers like marigolds near certain veggies to stop pests. Crop rotate each year. But the potatoes just come up where they want, I have to keep pulling them up. And mint. That's gone mad.

As I said earlier, all of this depends on people budgets and what they can afford to purchase. But clearly following a plantbased diet will cause least harm.

Only very rich people can afford organic food and your allotment doesn't provide enough food for you to live on.

I went to a lovely posh farmers market once in SW London. It must have been more than fifteen years ago. The brocoli had mud on it and was about £3 a lb. I swear I'd seen the chaos on a stall on North End Road market years before. I still remember the £17.50 scrawny organic chicken too.