Is it really that hard.....? 🤔

[StillGotBabyBrain]

My family is vegan, not a massive deal.

When the school has events, no vegan option, so everyone gets a bbq or food catered and we don't. Not even a dairy free alternative for hot drinks! (Primary school, high school is better).

When they go for sleepovers I get worried parents asking me what should they do, can I provide food and drinks for them...

Pubs and restaurants barely cater for adults let alone add options for the kids menu.

Went to a choir meeting the other week, nothing I could eat from the food included in my ticket price.

Am I being unreasonable thinking it's really not that difficult to provide bread and houmous or vegetable dishes? They're suitable for everyone, so isn't a waste of food! Blows my mind.

I dont go to many places with no vegan option, even school events but I dont think there is much choice.

Possibly. As I said earlier I live close to and work in a major city that's very young. Not much of a farming community in the area. I don't live in the North or the South, so can't say if there's a N/S divide!

That does align with my experience tbh - outside of the city and the more rural you get, the more anti-vegan a lot of people seem to be.

I think it’s a sad fact that there is suffering involved in many aspects of our ways of eating (and living). Our cheap commodities generally come with a background of grossly underpaid, backbreaking work, verging on slavery - example the horrific working conditions of people working in paddy fields. All so we can buy cheap bags of rice. Perhaps I’m completely off topic here, as I maybe was with my previous post. I genuinely don’t mean this to be inflammatory but do the people who are very much against animal and suggested human suffering in the name of meat production also give a great amount of thought to where their non meat food has come from? Assuming they ensure they buy fair trade everything? Investigate the origins of their produce? Does human suffering in the name of cheap food production matter hugely to people - assuming this matters more or an equal amount to animal suffering? As I said I’m genuinely not trying to be obtuse. Am just interested.

Never been to Yorkshire but isn’t their reputation as being very straight and honest in their communication?

Yes I suppose so. Traditional/old fashioned, too, which might account for it!

I think it's due to lack of knowledge. Most people don't realise that normal things like Oreo's happen to be vegan, also Original Pringles and beef and tomato pot noodles, there's loads of stuff that's vegan without anyone realising. They just assume vegan food is weird and scary (I'm not a vegan)

I’d say clothes (fast fashion) causes even more misery and exploitation, not to mention pollution.

Ideally we should be buying anything local (own county / then country / then Europe / and finally far flung places).
And ofc only buy new/replace only if something cannot be mended.

But while veggie might be becoming more mainstream vegan sure as hell isn't. If you choose an unnatural diet why would you expect people to remember that or cater for it?

It does - I focussed on food based on the thread topic. I just wondered if those who are so passionate about eating vegan to eliminate animal suffering give a great deal of thought to the origins of their vegan food and potential human suffering behaving it. I’m assuming they do. ‘They’ being those so passionate on the thread. But I do have to wonder if the vegan population on the whole thinks this way.

Veggie is mainstream and vegan is definitely becoming more popular where I live

I think even if they do, most would come to the conclusion that being killed is worse than other forms of suffering - which I suppose explains vegetarianism.

Apologies @aSofaNearYou struggling to reply in thread. I’m not normally much of a poster! I think this is where I start to struggle. Knowing the horrific and dangerous conditions these workers face at the hands of the (non meat) food industry. I can’t quite equate a life of misery and hardship (many forced to live lives away from family/children in order to provide) for a human being as equal or less important than the life of an animal (high welfare, responsibly reared and slaughtered). Like I said earlier I’m heading off topic so probably best to leave it there!

Are you referring to human suffering in the manufacture of food eaten exclusively by vegans? I'm not being awkward, but I'm not sure what you mean because its not as though vegans are choosing human suffering as preferable to animal suffering, any more than meat eaters are eating animals to protect human beings. As a vegan, there is nothing I eat that a meat eater wouldn't also eat. The only difference is they eat animals and animal products as well.
I don't typically bring ethics into the discussion as my main motivation for my diet is health, but I do struggle to see how my vegan diet is more ethically compromised than that of a person who eats the same plus animal products.

I love Brighton and Hove. I love how accepting everyone is and all the lovely vegan food and old hippies and ravers along with all the gays. I don't think MN likes it much though 🤣😂

Oh wrong thread lols

@5128gap I wasn’t trying to suggest that a vegan diet is or isn’t more or less ethical in those terms than a meat eater. I was merely interested to know if those so passionate about the suffering behind their food in terms of veganism also feel strongly about the origins of their plant based foods. Or do they feel the fact they aren’t eating meat is ‘ethical enough’. I appreciate not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons but there were some very passionate posts earlier in the thread about the ethics of not eating meat.
I don’t think it’s possible to draw comparisons tit for tat with diet (nor should we try) but I (as a meat eating former vegetarian) do now consider the origins of all of my produce - meat or non. I do my best to be aware of what lies behind the things I purchase. This is also for health as well as ethics in terms of organic produce. I can barely afford to buy it but know I’m privileged to try and eat this way. No one person can eat a perfectly ethical diet unless they were to produce all of their own food which is virtually impossible. Health issues have forced me to open my eyes to the origins of food. I haven’t always lived this way.

My daughter is coeliac so has to eat gluten free food. We always bring our own to any events we're going to because she needs to be extremely careful with cross contamination so even if someone made a gluten free option I probably wouldn't trust it. It's annoying but I don't let it get to me.

I'm surprised vegans are finding it hard though because in the last few years I have found the gluten free products in shops and supermarkets are reducing and being replaced with vegan plant based products. Same in restaurants there will always be a vegan option but not always gluten free 😞

I would say yes, most of the vegans I know are very kind and compassionate, and so absolutely care about human animals on the same level as non human animals. That's the point of veganism, to cause the least suffering to animals. Humans are animals.

Most vegans I know are very environmentally aware and with that comes the, shops in charity shops, sources local food, tries to walk or use local transport etc.

But there's also an element of being very ashamed of the human race, for the torture we inflict on all animals including human animals. It really is abhorrent.

All of this is also overwhelmingly decided by how much money people have. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy organic food or get to the local farm for their seasonal produce. However, overall, the suffering of humans, is nowhere near the suffering we inflict on animals, who have to die to feed us.

I think it fits here lovely! 🤣

@StillGotBabyBrain thanks for this - you echo what I had assumed. I must admit I don’t actually know anyone vegan to have this discussion/debate with in real life!
You’re so right that these things all
come down to affordability though. Educating our kids to make informed choices is important. The world is so very broken in many ways. I’lol go away now 😁

Yes I think you're right.

So much of what I eat is similar to meat eaters, just veganised. I just use beans/lentils/tofu etc in place of meat. All veg has protein in it. Man I love tofu.

I also get confused at people who will question processed plants, but not question the processed animals they eat.

I don't come out and say that randomly, it's in context to what they and a number of other people had offered up.

Why do you find it offensive that I've said I have a problem with what you choose to feed your kids, but not the people who had said that I shouldn't feed my children vegan and that I am neglecting them and making them mentally and physically sick?

Please note that up until people started judging my parenting, I'd not said a word about theirs. Sorry if you found that offensive, I don't want to offend you or anyone generally. But when people are saying it's wrong to feed my children all vegetables, I find it ironic and so point out what they feed theirs. Remember that my choice doesn't impact others, but meat eaters and vegetarians choices do have an effect across numerous animals.

It seems we all agree that in a global economy and prevailing rabid consumerism it’s very difficult (maybe even impossible) to buy 100% ethical stuff with zero environmental impact (food or otherwise).
The best we can do is choose what we care most about and do the least harm we can with the resources we have.
Peace out.
Live long and prosper.

@7Worfs exactly this. Couldn’t have put it better myself

I'm not sure that is true. When I hear the cows and their calves when they are separated it seems like terrible suffering and it goes on for days. If they were slaughtered it would be over and done wouldn't it.

And of course the cows go through that over and over again.

I haven't thought of this before but do vegans worry about the insects that will be killed in farming their food? I'm not sure what they'd do about it but farming must kill insects and presumably animals lose habit when land is claimed for farming.

Actually expanding on that do vegans kill vermin? I grew up in an inner city slum, fight cockroaches was just part of life but what would a vegan do? Is killing a living creature ever OK?