We should get more legal annual leave.

[Theworried2]

Even though we currently get 5.6 weeks leave as a minimum for full time employees plus weekends, this still means we spend 64% of days in our working lives in work.

Surely to ensure better mental and physical health, this amount should be raised (perhaps closer to the 13 weeks children get at school).
it doesn’t make sense that as soon as you leave education, your free time dramatically reduces.

At the very least, to reduce additional costs for employers, everyone should have a legal minimum weeks (e.g.5 per annum) of unpaid leave if they want it. This shouldn’t just be confined to parents.

if people are properly rested, productivity may rise which could help solve the UK’s productivity puzzle.

It's probably quite telling that sectors with the least flexibility are mostly suffering from real staff shortages at the moment. People vote with their feet. The current model isn't working too well, we know that much.

I don't think I need more leave personally but my employer does allow people to "buy" more leave so if you've got kids or eg elder care responsibilities or a hobby you want to devote more time to you can take the financial hit and get another week's leave (I think that's the max though)

I'd like to do away with some of the bank holidays and choose when to take time off myself.

I'd like to do away with some of the bank holidays and choose when to take time off myself.

That one is useful - the rest of my team is in the US so they're happy for me to take different days in lieu of the BHs. It's especially handy where we live as the roads get somjammed on them it's best to stay at home.

It won't be possible for all jobs but for some it may be worth asking about.

Bank Holidays are pretty unfair, no getting round it.

I'm one of few people in my team without kids and I haven't once been able to take all of my leave because the parents use all their annual leave and then unpaid parental leave, and we still need someone in doing the work. Big public sector organisation.

I'd welcome this in theory as long as in practice it didn't just end up with some people covering even more of the work because their colleagues need the leave more.

it is worth considering the history - if we go back 50+ years, generally speaking there was a pattern of woman at home and man out to work and most people above a certain age in marriages - now obviously ignoring the sex based bias in that and the often tricky natures of some of those marriages - the advantage it brought was the different balance in time at work.

365 days x 24 hours = 8,760 hours in a year
28 days off minimum + 104 weekend days = working 233 days p/a max.
233 days x 8 hours = 1,864 hours worked of 8,760 i.e. an 8 hour day means that someone works for 21% of the year = c. 1/5th of the year at work and 4/5 of the year not at work (in which to sleep / commute / go on holiday / etc.)

8 hours sleep per night = 365 x 8 = 2,920 = 5,840 waking hours a year.
therefore work is 32% of waking hours or c. 1/3

so straight away there is a challenge there that only spending 1/5th of your life at work doesn't seem al that high... even 1/3 of waking hours doesn't seem all that high either.

however, when couples 50 years ago were one at work and one at home, instead of 1/3 of the couple's time effectively it was 1/6th of the couple's time involved that work (housework and children existed both then and now).

So, working patterns have had a large effect - however we have a society driven by the need for two to work (housing prices largely driving that), and we also have a more fragmented society with many more couples split up / single people not marrying etc. leading to a higher % of single people making it even more challenging.

So, what are the options?

• the OP suggests that some magic money fund simply pays people the same and allows them to work a lot less - not practical and will never happen.
• a correction in the housing market could help - but rising population numbers / increased split households / house purchases from abroad (e.g. London) / other reasons mean this is unlikely
• people look at how they spend their time

with today's set up (and acknowledging that it is not identical for everyone) work is still only 1/3 of waking hours - so if that seems like a huge burden and an enormous amount of time - then what are those same people doing with the 2x that amount of time which is free and available?

back in 2021 Ofcom reported that on average UK adults were spending c. 1/3 of their waking hours on TV and streaming and social media etc. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58086629) If so, then that is 50% of their free time. If you consider that time with children / housework / sorting out bills / all the odds and ends jobs take up quite a bit of time - it is hardly surprising that people feel they don't have enough time...

so, it would seem that the easiest way to fix this is not to invent magic sources of money and kill the economy (typical - it is someone' else's responsibility approach!) but instead, audit our own time - perhaps drop that 1/3 of our life which is TV / internet and use that time for things which are more healthy - exercise / hobbies / reading / playing games / time with friends and family / nice meals with a good bottle of wine - that sort of thing!

take ownership of your own time - a full time job is a minor part of the hours available to ourselves, so we really have no justification for complaining in this society - esp. when on average we throw away the same amount of time again on watching cats on a screen!

Your calculations are wrong. It's not 28 days minimum, for starters. It's 20. Employers don't have to grant bank holidays as extra, and some don't. You've also left out commuting, which for many workers is unavoidable and a significant time sink.

Really though, telling people they just need to change their mindset and work will seem like it takes up less of their time is ludicrous. Full time jobs mean most people can't do much other than the job and associated activities on the days they're working, and the majority of their days are working days. Shockingly enough, they've noticed. The solution to this isn't spending less time on our phones. People are voting with their feet.

The fact of the matter is that most people's pay relates to 35 hours pw for about 45 weeks worked.

@RosesAndHellebores

Does it? My contracted hours are 37.5 hours a week. I thought that was the norm. 35 seems low.

I get 30 days annual leave plus bank holidays. It definitely doesn't feel like enough.

Brits work the longest hours in Europe.

I just wish blood clinics would do one late night or a weekend
I have bloods every 12 weeks for one issue, and every 8 weeks for another. Clinics are 9-3 weekdays and none on a Friday afternoon
The hospital aren't happy when I don't have them done but if I've run out of annual leave I'm stuck!

And this is where problems start arising. People want their nice office jobs to be more flexible and for people to work less but they want appointments and activities to be available more often. What if all the blood staff only want to work flexibly and in term time only? What if they can only open 2 days a week as all the staff are on holiday during August with the kids.
Years ago I used to work in an Orthodontic Clinic. NHS so mainly kids. We were open until 8pm 3 nights and week and Saturday mornings. We would still have parents complaining that we weren't flexible enough because "their child had school and also had after school clubs they couldn't miss". Unfortunately some people have to work hours they don't want to. It's just life. Not every business can give their staff total control over their hours and holidays.

@MPY24 I work hours I don't want to, including weekends and from 8am - 7pm
Maybe some would be happy to do a later shift or an earlier one, once a week. If they were open until 5pm I could get there

There's no solution, and if I can't have my bloods done, I can't have my medication
9-3 isn't suitable for anyone that works FT and has chronic illnesses

I actually agree with you that clinics etc should find ways to be open more suitable hours for working people. I'm more just pointing out to the people that think every job should be fully flexible with weeks and weeks of holidays/unpaid leave should be the norm and would work fine.
Not many people want to work unsociable hours. They do it yes because they know its part of the job, but too many people these days seem to think the hours they work should be optional. Claiming its not good for work/life balance. Which may well be true. But SOME ONE needs to do these jobs. Someone needs to be working until 8pm in the blood place. But "not them as they have kids".

@PaperSheet I get you, I've worked in the NHS and done night shifts etc
I'm frustrated because one of the medications they want me now to have my bloods done the week before exactly
But there is no solution as to how I can have this done. No annual leave left as I've used it all for hospital appointments

@MidnightMeltdown it depends on the contract. Our admins are 35, supervisors up 35 to 40, senior staff as required.

I don't think I've ever worked 9-5 in 40 years of working.

I do think the NHS is unbelievably inflexible regarding the needs of working people. If I need an appointment at my convenience, I have to pay for it. My consultant works privately between 6 and 7.30 and so do the nurses at the private hospitals so they can and do and it's clearly what people need and want. If that weren't the case, they'd hold their NHS clinics from 5 to 7.30 and their private patients would be willing to pay between 9am and noon, and presumably be kept waiting for nearly two hours due to late clinics.

I manage a team of 10. We all have been at the company a long time so we all get 32 days plus bank holidays. We also all buy an additional 5 days a year as well. So that works out as 45 days each! It's almost a full time job managing the holiday calendar as it is!

I think we should be looking more at common time when as many people are not working.

I'd start with closing shops on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day.

sorry - you are wrong:
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights
28 days minimum - though you are correct they don't have to include bank holidays... still needs to be 28 days minimum though (very few exceptions to that)

and yes, people do need to change their mindset, we have a country where increasingly it would appear that people do not wish to work, but still wish to get paid - quite how that builds an economy I don't know. The reality is that 1/3 of waking time working is small - just be thank that you weren't around in medieval times ;) and yes, of course commuting takes up some time - but again, a lot of people do have a choice as to where they live and how long they commute - the point is we all have choices, but wanting it all without having to work for it is not a viable choice!

Looking around, in the countries where this is being trialled, it is a reduction from a standard working week of 40 hours, to 35 hours. We already have this in many roles. This can be spread out or compressed, but it doesn't necessarily mean more days off, just more flexibility.

it is a reduction from a standard working week of 40 hours, to 35 hours. We already have this in many roles

Genuinely, do we? I was on a thread a couple of weeks back in which people were talking about how they never really saw 35 hour weeks anymore (except maybe the civil service?). Certainly, all my roles have been 37.5-40 hours - in IT.

35 hours over 4 days is just shy of 9 hours a day. That would be lovely!

That’s very much on the generous side at present though. When I was looking for a new job I considered the acceptable leave box ticked with either 25 plus ability to purchase extra OR 25 increasing with service. In each case topping out at 30 days. I never saw both and I never saw anything that would allow me to get to over 30 plus BHs overall.

I think your entitlement would already make a huge difference to most of us!

This is why I went part time. Extra day of freedom every week. Wish I'd done it years ago.

Your manager needs to deal with that - it should be fair.

We get 31 days, plus SHs and an extra day at Christmas. We can always work up flexitime (though it was taken from us for 3 years since Covid and I really missed it!)

Now as I am getting older, I tend to think about how much of my life has been and is being, spent working! I was also able to do 'family friendly' for a few years where I took a month off in the summer and the deduction from my salary was taken out monthly. Could have taken two months but we could cover the rest with annual leave.

I think I'd prefer a 4 day week than more bank holidays.

@mayorofcasterbridge They do try but keep getting threatened with people going to HR and calling in sick instead (both of which have happened in the past). It's fair to say that they could try harder but I also see how it's easier for them to promote the desirable family friendly narrative if they let the parents have first dibs.

Blimey you wouldn't want to be self employed. You can have as much time off as you want but you don't get paid. It focussed the mind!

I think you're being totally unrealistic.

Who's got the highest? Why can't we aim for that?