We should get more legal annual leave.

[Theworried2]

Even though we currently get 5.6 weeks leave as a minimum for full time employees plus weekends, this still means we spend 64% of days in our working lives in work.

Surely to ensure better mental and physical health, this amount should be raised (perhaps closer to the 13 weeks children get at school).
it doesn’t make sense that as soon as you leave education, your free time dramatically reduces.

At the very least, to reduce additional costs for employers, everyone should have a legal minimum weeks (e.g.5 per annum) of unpaid leave if they want it. This shouldn’t just be confined to parents.

if people are properly rested, productivity may rise which could help solve the UK’s productivity puzzle.

As someone who has gone part time at 53 and will be closing down their business at the end of the year ahead 55 no it won't. I have had enough of working.
Productivity will fall in increasing holiday. For example if each year you make one "thing" a day in your factory job and work for 233 days per year (rough guess of 52 weeks,less weekend, bank hols and 4 weeks holiday) you make 233 things....5 more days holiday...228 things. Simplified approach because the real reason why productivity is low is the lack of investment in capital ie the tools, machinery etc to do the job efficiently in the UK.

Be careful what you wish for! This article focuses on the financial rather than the more lifestyle related reasons people go for part time over full time, but in a society where we already don't have enough workers, if you don't like it cut your hours is, well, maybe a risky approach. I say this as a long term part timer.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/13/full-time-part-time-work-no-longer-pays-uk-economy

Also, where did you see that we get the 4th highest? Google seems to throw up wildly varying accounts. I think you can get quite different figures depending on whether the question is about legal minimum with bank holidays, legal minimum without and what people actually take on average.

Fourth highest?

I've not seen a list that even puts us in the top 10.

Order these by the most and you have to scroll a looong way down to find the UK

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listoffminimumannuallleavebyy_country

Comparison with Europe...

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-paid-leave-holiday-entitlement-compares-to-eu-countries-in-europe-in-charts-a6881456.html

I read that medieval peasants worked 150 days a year. Though, if course their home labour would have been a lot more than today!

But what about small companies, that are not making millions and billions of pounds?
Many many people work in companies with 25 staff or less. They are not making this type of money. You seem to think everyone works for places like BT/virgin/barclays bank or some global conglomerates

It's nice to see a sensible post! All I'm getting from this thread is that people are wanting to be paid not to work.

But what about small companies, that are not making millions and billions of pounds?
Many many people work in companies with 25 staff or less. They are not making this type of money. You seem to think everyone works for places like BT/virgin/barclays bank or some global conglomerates
Most of the examples being given were about waiting for things in large organisations.

The government could choose to have support available for small businesses. They throw enough money at millionaires every year. I'd have no issues with some of that being redirected to help small businesses with turnover under a certain amount/under a set number of employees instead.

Another alternative to increasing annual leave could be to improve working conditions day to day, ensure better maternity/paternity pay, have a fairer wage for all, ensure that everyone has appropriate sick pay etc and that way quality of life in the workplace would increase.
Then staff departments and organisations properly, unlike what happens at the moment where everything is understaffed, existing workers are doing more than their role, and then getting sick or burning out.

It would probably lead to more productivity, people would feel more rested from their weekends and then there'd not be the need for additional annual leave.

I'm open to a lot of reforms that don't involve average people crawling around for crumbs and fighting against other workers who want appropriate conditions and pay.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh, I love a good laugh in the morning.

Seriously though, work isn't a babysitting service for bored adults who just want someone to bankroll their navel gazing, eco-friendly, sustainable as fuck backpacking trips to the Lake District.

In the nicest way possible OP, you need to grow up.

Jesus, yeah, I can't see ANY way this couldn't be abused and figures fiddled to get free money!

"We have the most productive non-working, sat at home on their arses, definitely not working or producing anything, employees in the country.

Bring it on!

Free money for all!

Work? Don't be silly, just sign up to not work for us, you get paid, we get paid, everybody gets paid!
😂

I agree, OP. Because I have a child and want term time only work, the only job open to me is teaching. I have a lot of skills that employers could use but can’t because I need more than 5 weeks’ leave. And before everyone pounces, yes, I have used holiday clubs in the past but that gets harder as the kids get older and I don’t want my child sitting on a screen all day because I am working.

Jesus, yeah, I can't see ANY way this couldn't be abused and figures fiddled to get free money!
Given our current government has done sweet eff all about their mates lining their pockets, I find the obsession that your average small business owner and workers are lazy crooks to be laughable.

It reminds me of how quick Jo Public is willing to come on Mumsnet asking if they should report their neighbour for having their boyfriend round too many nights as it might be benefit fraud, but seem not bothered one jot about the amount of taxpayers money that's lining the already huge bank accounts of the well connected.

There's a nasty rush to the bottom in this country when it comes to workers wanting reasonable terms and conditions. The fanatics who wrote Britannia Unchained are probably sitting around laughing as average workers turn on each other doing a pathetic pick me dance on who's the most willing to grovel for crumbs.

There are already posts on MN about people not being able to get leave when they want it. If people had more leave, the chances of all parents, plus partners of teaches, others who want time off round Xmas/Easter/summer holidays getting it would be slim.
Lovely as it sounds, I think it would cause chaos and resentment - and I say that as a wife of someone whose DH was told he could "never have Xmas off as Y took it off every year to fly home and see his family". That policy changed when it was pointed out DH would like to spend Xmas day with his family once in a while. Noone else in office celebrated Xmas, so noone else was bothered.

One of Jeremy corbyns policies was for a standard 4 day working week. That was a good idea. He was thinking of the impacts of robotics and AI as well as health and well-being.

If employees' productivity and mental health increases as a result, then it surely won't be that bad for businesses to increase annual leave time

It’s funny that we keep talking about four-day weeks and similar schemes while in reality hours are longer than ever. There was a thread the other day about how 9-5 has become 9-5:30 or 6. I recently changed jobs myself and my new contracted hours are half a day more a week than with my previous employer.

Not that it makes any difference because I worked in excess of the new hours at the previous place anyway.

I’d like to see shorter hours and more creative flexible working, but in order for that to happen employers en masse would have to allow employees to benefit from labour-saving technology rather than employing fewer people or loading on other tasks. In my own profession talk about AI and other aids is all about letting them do the routine work while we add value in other ways when it could be about cutting out the routine work, leaving the more interesting stuff roughly as it is and enjoying shorter weeks.

In my own profession talk about AI and other aids is all about letting them do the routine work while we add value in other ways when it could be about cutting out the routine work, leaving the more interesting stuff roughly as it is and enjoying shorter weeks.

Or fewer people.

It’s funny that we keep talking about four-day weeks and similar schemes while in reality hours are longer than ever. There was a thread the other day about how 9-5 has become 9-5:30 or 6. I recently changed jobs myself and my new contracted hours are half a day more a week than with my previous employer.

Meanwhile, more people are working part time instead. Worth thinking about whether there are any dots to be joined here!

I think it's enough. It's substantially more than many US companies give.

The other piece is work/life balance, flexibility and supporting your staff. I'm lucky enough to work for a company of mainly remote employees (globally) with a big focus on the above. I can send my guys take out, give them extra days, all number of ways to make life a little easier and better. It counts for a lot.

@Oakbeam - yes, I can’t see that employers will resist the temptation to just cut jobs. However, our professional bodies and leaders are ‘selling’ this to us and to our employers with the spiel about freeing up time to add value in other ways. And, actually, in the short term that does seem to be happening.

Conspicuously absent from the discussion is any hint that the work lives of actual employees may be improved.

I'd rather work a 5 day week than work 4 long days.

We used to be allowed to work evening invigilating shifts in return for leave. I work in an academic library and you could take leave or pay. However, one of the management team figured out how many hours the institution was ‘losing’ in terms of day job work. They capped how many invigilations per week were permitted and said it could only be for pay. That’s pay at the invigilation rate. So they then had trouble getting the evening roles that needed more experience filled and made one evening shift per fortnight compulsory for new roles.

the 4 dayweek would be less hours, not cramming in the current 9to 5. Companies have trialed it and found productivity doesn’t fall, people are healthier and aren’t off sick with stress so much etc

In these threads people only ever consider office type workers. Retail/ medical/hospitality etc are never thought about because it quite frankly wouldn't work. You can't have hospitality or medical staff all choosing their own flexible working hours. Taking 6 weeks off over the summer etc. I work in medical and I already get patients complaining at me if I dare take a week off that coincides with school holidays as that's when they wanted their child to attend to see me. Basically everyone wants their job to be flexible, but all other jobs available to suit them. "I want to take the whole school holidays off. But I want all activities, restaurants, medical things open throughout so I can go with my family."