Definition of unprotected sex

[rosetintedmemories2023]

According to the WHO, infertility is a disease of the male or female reproductive system defined by the failure to achieve a pregnancy after 12 months or more of regular unprotected sexual intercourse.

So would using methods like the withdrawal method and the rhythm method count as 'unprotected sex '

YABU- it counts as 'protected' sexual intercourse.
YANBU- it doesn't count as protected sexual intercourse.

I have spoken to fertility experts and they say that using these methods don't count as 'trying' but yet at the same time, mainstream medical advice is that only condoms or female contraceptives count as birth control. So how can you not be trying but yet not using birth control? Are you in some sort of limbo?

Disclaimer - been using rhythm method and withdrawal for 8 years with DH (he does have a history of epilepsy which he is seeing a neurologist about). We don't use condoms during fertile period.

You're not having unprotected sex if he's not ejaculating into you.

The method is often unreliable, hence it not being classed as 'birth control'. But unless you're regularly having full sex over your ovulation days, you haven't been 'trying'.

I would say it's somewhere in the middle, honestly.

Pregnancy is more likely than with condoms/the pill etc, but less likely than if you took no precautions whatsoever.

So how can you not be trying but yet not using birth control? Are you in some sort of limbo?

I mean, pretty easily? Plenty of people have unprotected sex and don't classify it as 'trying to have a baby'.

I don't understand why you're asking. Presumably you don't want to be pregnant if you're taking steps not to conceive. So are you just asking if you fit the definition of infertile?

Yes.

You say this is in the context of trying for a baby.

Someone who is TTC would not be using those as a contraceptive method. And one of the things that is sometimes checked is that the couple who have not conceived are having full penetrative intercourse throughout each cycle.

So a couple who for whatever weird reason isn't copulating enough or in a way likely to be effective would be told to alter their habits and return after a further number of months.

Exactly, it's not a binary thing.

The reality is pulling out isn't a scientific method and there is a lot of room for error, so it isn't recommended as reliable birth control if you don't want a child. However pulling out is obviously putting a barrier up to conception, and the effectiveness depends on the individual person and their cycle. So if you are pulling out you can't actually count it as trying and therefore lack of pregnancy doesn't automatically mean infertility.

"Infertile" is one of those terms that is used with all sorts of meanings, usually colloquially to refer to a specific physical condition of one or both partners.

In the world of conception and fertility, you can both be fine with no diagnosed conditions, or have existing children between you, yet meet the definition of not getting pregnant in 12 months when trying.

It's often seen as a binary thing - you're either a fertile person or an infertile person - but "Infertile" in this usage refers to the situation of this particular couple at this particular point in time.

Hard to get your head around sometimes, especially with e.g secondary infertility.

I would say no one would be able to know if you were infertile if you and your DH has always used withdrawal. There wouldn't be enough to go by to make that conclusion.

It's not classed as birth control because it can be unreliable and therefore no health board wants to encourage it. Doesn't meant it never works to prevent pregnancy though.

Withdrawal isn't a properly reliable contraceptive method but it's better than nothing. I wouldn't classify a couple as 'infertile' if they had been using it for a year and the woman hadn't got pregnant.

In terms of contraception and sexual health, withdrawal is NOT counted as a contraceptive method.

The rhythm method (properly called natural family planning or fertility awareness method) can be an effective method if used properly.

Regarding fertility help, a couple need to be having penetrative intercourse with ejaculation into the vagina for it to be considered “trying”.

I'm not really sure why it matters? If you chose to use withdrawal / rhythm, fine but they are not as reliable as condoms, the pill etc. But it doesn't have to mean you're trying for a baby.

Sorry, not related to your question, but what is the relevance of your DH's epilepsy? Is there a connection with fertility?

The term “unprotected” is vague as most people think of protection as including from disease

https://www.efepa.org/living-with-epilepsy/men-with-epilepsy/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20epilepsy%20does%20have%20an,characteristics%20and%20can%20decrease%20fertility.

'Yes, epilepsy does have an impact on reproductive function and fertility. Statistically, men with epilepsy (MWE) have a disproportionately high risk of reproductive dysfunction, which manifests as diminished potency and abnormal sperm characteristics and can decrease fertility. Specific findings regarding reproduction and fertility among MWE include the following:One study found that MWE were only 36 percent as likely as their male siblings without epilepsy to father a pregnancy.

In a study comparing sperm in healthy males to sperm in MWE, researchers found that all MWE—regardless of whether they were taking antiepileptic medications (AEDs)—exhibit abnormalities in the structure and function of their sperm far more frequently than do healthy males.'

Dh's epilepsy is inherited and his grandmother and uncle both had it. Both had two children each (with large age gaps and second child was an 'accident' in both cases) though admittedly there were quite a few years between marriage and conception. Whether this had to do with fertility or other reasons, we don't know. i will talk about it with his neurologist when we next have a meeting. previously DH thought his childhood epilepsy had gone away but now he thinks he is having absence seizures so getting it checked out. otherwise fit and healthy.

It doesn't count as tttc. The chances of getting pregnant while following these things is much lower than just having sex randomly. The definition in terms of infertility just means you don't have to be obsessively checking fertile windows and aiming for them etc.

Wikipedia has a breakdown of the chances to conceive using various methods including what you mention, and nothing.

The withdrawal method seems to work as contraception for some couples. Some men leak sperm before they ejaculate. Withdrawal does not work as contraception for these men.

A friend has two children, conceived easily after they stopped using withdrawal, has never conceived since and only uses withdrawal.
If you want a baby, stop using withdrawal

I don't understand why you are using the rhythm method and withdrawal but then not using condoms during fertile period - do you mean that could be an added protection you don't use?

I guess I would think the WHO aren't going into detail about it maybe?

So you've tracked your ovulation and avoided having any kind of penetrative sex during your fertile period and your husband has never ejaculated inside you?

Obviously it works as contraception for you. You're not actively trying to conceive.

I was just about to type something like this! Some men dribble throughout so withdrawal doesn't work. If your (op's) dh isn't one of these types, then you have been using a semi-effective (for you) birth control.

I'm unclear from your op if you're now trying to conceive, and have stopped withdrawing? Surely this would be something to try for a while before seeking fertility advice? Or does your dh prefer to withdraw for some reason??

It's not unprotected sex for the purpose of fertility but it is unprotected sex for risks of disease. It's certainly not a good contraceptive method either.

I am thinking of TTC next year or in 2025 but if i am already infertile, maybe i should just start trying sooner.

I couldn’t think of anything worse tbh.

I’d rather hurt just contraception and have sex anytime I want without the worry of him having to pull out at the best bit.