Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be uncomfortable with the film Oppenheimer?

584 replies

LKM23 · 21/07/2023 18:23

I haven't seen the film, I'm sure it's a brilliant thriller and will be a Blockbuster hit. I don't think I'll watch it though, it makes my feel really uncomfortable.

It feels like a man who at the end of the day killed thousands of people and damaged millions is being celebrated and turned into a hero.

I lived in Japan for 10 years in my twenties. I visited both Hiroshima and Nagasaki and spent a lot of time with people both directly and indirectly affected by the dropping of the bombs. Those scars are real and still there and will be for a very very long time. It changed Japan and the people who live there forever and at the end of the day I think he was an awful person.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Vitriolinsanity · 21/07/2023 19:21

You are not @Zippeedidodah

War is man at our worst. The Japanese army was vicious in its treatment of prisoners, women and children. We carpet bombed Dresden. The Germans slaughtered millions.

If Oppenheimer hadn't fathered the atom bomb you can bet your house another nation's scientists would have.

Ignore history at peril. Watch the film or don't it won't be a comfortable experience, but none of the critics mention any measure of celebration of Oppenheimer.

Gingerboy22 · 21/07/2023 19:23

twentyonepoundnote · 21/07/2023 18:26

YABU I can't stand films about the holocaust, such as Schindler's list - but other people have the option to watch them if they want to, and people learn from them

Surely that is a completely different scenario or are you comparing the Nazis to Oppenheimer?

DuesToTheDirt · 21/07/2023 19:24

LKM23 · 21/07/2023 18:36

I think this is part of it for me, it's very much from the Americans POV. History is written by the winners after all and is often not entirely accurate.

I've lived in Japan, and been to Nagasaki. Yes, it's disturbing, and I am in two minds about going to see the film. But as for accuracy, the Japanese (certainly when I was there 30 years ago) were very much in denial, and in many cases ignorance, as to their part in the war.

MinnieTruck · 21/07/2023 19:24

I work in the film industry and can watch unlimited amounts of films for free. I won’t be watching Oppenheimer because it’s 3 hours long and I have poor concentration.

However, BARBIE oh I can’t wait to watch that sometime this weekend. I can’t believe people are saying they’re uncomfortable about Barbie😂 I really want to know why

Justcallmebebes · 21/07/2023 19:24

Also OP, read up on the Japanese invasion of China pre World War 2. The Japanese did not cover themselves in glory at all

BeeHappy12 · 21/07/2023 19:24

The hindi quote 'Now I am become Death. The destroyer of worlds' is what Oppenheimer supposedly said whilst watching the bombs be deployed.

He was supposedly deeply troubled by the use of the bombs and joined with Einstein to advocate for governments to stop using nuclear weapons. After he confessed his guilty to President Truman and said, 'I've got blood on my hands' he was famously called a 'cry baby scientist' by Truman.

I think nuclear warfare is abhorrent but I'm not sure Oppenheimer is painted as a hero (ever or in this film) just as he rightfully wasn't awarded a scientific nobel prize.

notimagain · 21/07/2023 19:25

Zippeedidodah · 21/07/2023 19:09

Am I the only one who remembered he regretted the bomb making and only built it because Germany I think had the formula of a similar type of bomb? Could you imagine what the nazis would have done if they got to making it first...

Spot on...

(?spoiler alert needed??)??

The main reason thousands of scientists many of them eventual Nobel Laureates, many of them refugees from Europe, got involved in the project was their worry that the Germans had the capability to build their own bomb and deliver it.....Oppenheimer was a brilliant thinker and manager but it wasn't "his bomb".

The doubts within the science team at places like Los Alamos only started to really surface when Germany was defeated and they started asking themselves should the weapon be used against Japan.

FWIW according to the likes of Rhodes whilst Oppenheimer had obvious concerns about the A bomb and campaigned for controls post WW2 he still felt you could justified their use in some circumstances.

What he was very outspoken against was the "Super", i.e. the H-bomb, Teller's pride and joy, and it was that that led to him losing his security clearance and ability to continue research at a high level as peacetime scientist

Gingerboy22 · 21/07/2023 19:26

LKM23 · 21/07/2023 18:41

I'm uncomfortable with the way it's being advertised, I feel that is glorifying him. Whether the film does or not I don't know but yes from what I've seen so far I think I might find it unpalatable which is why I'm asking 🤷‍♀️

You just keep saying the same thing over and over and yet you haven't seen it !

Saschka · 21/07/2023 19:27

oldoldieoldieold · 21/07/2023 19:09

I'd also love to know why you'll "definitely not be going to see Barbie!" as well. What is wrong with that particular film?

She hasn’t seen it, but for all she knows, it might glorify the Holocaust. You can’t be too careful.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 21/07/2023 19:29

To sum up this thread:

OP:There’s a thing I know very little about and don’t feel comfortable with the portrayal of this thing.

Everyone else:

  • Don’t watch it
  • It’s complicated
  • Here are some facts
OP: OMG Why are being mean to me
StillWantingADog · 21/07/2023 19:32

readbooksdrinktea · 21/07/2023 18:31

YABU for saying it depicts him as a hero if you haven't even seen it.

This. None of the promotional stuff I have seen- or the reviews- suggest this is the case

SunnyEgg · 21/07/2023 19:32

I know nothing about the film but the Richard Rhodes book The Making of the Atomic Bomb is fascinating and totally changed my views on why we ended up where we did

readbooksdrinktea · 21/07/2023 19:35

BrandyandGinger thanks for posting the link.

MissyGirlie · 21/07/2023 19:37

OP, I haven't RTFT, because I haven't the patience. I have however changed my user name, because what I am about to say will be very outing.

I would suggest that you catch up sharpish on the history of Asia under the Japanese, c1930-1945. The Japanese were brutal in China. They carried out medical experiments on many, many human beings, who they referred to as 'maruta' - logs. They killed thousands when they took Nanking.

I know the most about Malaya. My father's Eurasian family was there when the Japanese army came ashore (not having declared war). They were utterly, horrendously brutal. Somewhere over 20,000 Chinese were killed in what was call the Syonan Daikensho - the Great Singapore Inspection - in the course of about a month just after the fall of Singapore. Other Chinese were killed up and down the peninsula, in their hundreds and thousands, at least one whole village rounded up and the buildings set on fire with the people inside.

My own family had a terrible time. My father's father was killed when the ship in which he tried to leave Singapore, packed with civilians, was shelled and sunk by a Japanese destroyer whose captain knew that there were hundreds of civilians on board. My grandmother was interned and came out weighing about 5 stone. One of my uncles was recaptured with some others after escaping from a POW camp; he was beaten repeatedly and finally executed. It was botched, and none of the men was killed outright by the firing squad, they all had to finished off by an officer with a pistol (iirc).

My oldest cousin was also a POW (he was very much older than me). We don't know how he died, because the Japanese falsified the records of the camp he was in (Labuan - no survivors, none, not one) - to disguise the massacre at the end of the war, when the death marched the last of the men and finally shot them. Another cousin had a narrow escape from being forced into prostitution.

You think that's bad? The worst story of the lot was my father's uncle and aunt. They and another 60 or more people were massacred at the rubber estate where they had taken refuge. Men, women, and children, including babes in arms. Killed in cold blood, with bayonets. Nobody knows why: again, no survivors. At about the same time, there was a massacre of dozens of Chinese on a nearby pineapple estate.

Repeat that over and over and over again, through China, Burma, what is now Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia, what is now Indonesia, what is now Malaysia. Asians were chipped off in their thousands to work on the Burma-Siam railways; thousands died. Javanese were shipped over to work in Singapore. when the work ran out, the Japanese turned them out to starve in the streets: I used to know someone whose brother's (cousin's?) job at that time was taking a handcart round to collect up the bodies. By the end of the war, about 10,000 people A DAY were dying of starvation across Japanese-occupied Asia. The Japanese people were being urged to fight to the last man, woman and child. One faction in government was desperate to continue the war, and orders had been issued for the killing of all prisoners of war. All of them. Tens of thousands of people. In places, Japanese army supply lines had collapsed and the troops were (and this you will not believe, but plenty of accounts attest to it) eating their Indian POWs (see John Baptist Crasta, 'Eaten by the Japanese'.

So before you start feeling too awfully sorry for the Japanese, consider all this. Consider also that ALL Japanese war dead - including the war criminals like the man who was probably responsible for the death of my cousin - are enshrined at Yaukuni, and influential Japanese politicians still go and pay their respects there. Remember Shinzo Abe? Yup, he did.

I think the atom bombs were terrible, but I think that on balance they saved lives. I don't blame modern Japanese for what their forebears did. But I can't bear people condemning the Allies for the atom bombs when they have no idea what Japan did in Asia, mostly to Asians but also to tens of thousands of European and Indian POWs.

PorpoiseWithPurpose · 21/07/2023 19:37

Nw22 · 21/07/2023 19:04

I’m intrigued what people think the problem with Barbie is

No one has a problem with it apart from OP.

BarelyLiterate · 21/07/2023 19:37

I haven’t seen the movie, either, but it’s important to be understand the history. Japan was the aggressor in WWII, not the victim of aggression. The imperialist Japanese regime sought to invade & conquer other nations and subjugate their peoples to enrich themselves. Japan launched an unprovoked war of aggression against the U.S. with the (military brilliant & highly successful) attack on Pearl Harbor.
Dropping nuclear bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki forced the Japanese to surrender & shortened the war. Had it not happened, the US & its allies would have been forced to invade in order to defeat Japan, at the likely cost of millions of lives. President Trueman had no easy options in 1945, and most historians agree that he chose the least bad one.

MissEDashwood19 · 21/07/2023 19:39

Justcallmebebes · 21/07/2023 19:24

Also OP, read up on the Japanese invasion of China pre World War 2. The Japanese did not cover themselves in glory at all

The Japanese were not the war's victims despite their myriad and continued attempts to paint themselves as such.

Chinese and Korean women and children, among their many other victims, were brutalised, raped and murdered in their millions. Somehow these barbarous acts are overlooked.

The bomb was horrible, but it does not negate the evil the Japan unleashed on its neighbours and allied PoWs.

The Emperor and his military junta were utterly criminal and Japanese civilians were collateral damage in the war of annihilation they were happy to wage on their "enemies". Most of these supremely evil people escaped justice, like the Emper who should have been executed for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Hibiscrubbed · 21/07/2023 19:47

Jesus Christ. 🤦🏼‍♀️

EarringsandLipstick · 21/07/2023 19:47

Don't get me started on why I won't watch Barbie, we'll be here all night and I've got shit to do.

I won't. And I didn't.

It was you who brought it up.

It seems throwing out casual uniformed one-liners, that you can't back up, is your thing.

TrueScrumptious · 21/07/2023 19:48

None of the promotional material I’ve seen makes him out to be a hero. Where have you got that from?

EarringsandLipstick · 21/07/2023 19:49

I don't know much about him at all hence my thread,

Not able to google, even a cursory one?

That's not the basis of your thread anyway. Your thread is objecting to a film you haven't watched apparently glorifying a figure you know nothing about 🙄

EarringsandLipstick · 21/07/2023 19:49

ScentlessAprentice · 21/07/2023 18:55

Your passive aggressive calling people 'lovely', 'darling', and 'hon', along with the 'off you pop' when someone posted something that you disliked, suggests that you don't really want opinions at all.

I think you are correct.

Maireas · 21/07/2023 19:50

twentyonepoundnote · 21/07/2023 18:26

YABU I can't stand films about the holocaust, such as Schindler's list - but other people have the option to watch them if they want to, and people learn from them

This.

TheoTheopolis23 · 21/07/2023 19:51

All this talk of Japan, the Japanese State, The Japanese ...... As with any state/country/group of states; it's not civilians, it's not the majority of people.

The people who were killed by by the atomic bombs in Japan were highly unlikely to have been responsible for any of the war crimes/killings etc. They were civilians, were they not; including women and children.

Same for any state, military of that state.

Why talk as though everyone or the majority of people were involved or responsible; they weren't. They are all victims, made so by their leaders decisions.
Japan want even democratic FFS. They had no vote, no say. They were ignorant of what was happening outside their local.area and we're subject to propaganda and censorship.

I think we need to be very careful in saying "Japan", "The Japanese State" etc (applies to any state, especially dictatorships .... We need to make it clear it's a small group (relative to the entire population) leading a state of the military of that state.

TheoTheopolis23 · 21/07/2023 19:52

*We need to make it clear it's a small group (relative to the entire population) leading a state or the military of that state.