To be uncomfortable with the film Oppenheimer?

[LKM23]

I haven't seen the film, I'm sure it's a brilliant thriller and will be a Blockbuster hit. I don't think I'll watch it though, it makes my feel really uncomfortable.

It feels like a man who at the end of the day killed thousands of people and damaged millions is being celebrated and turned into a hero.

I lived in Japan for 10 years in my twenties. I visited both Hiroshima and Nagasaki and spent a lot of time with people both directly and indirectly affected by the dropping of the bombs. Those scars are real and still there and will be for a very very long time. It changed Japan and the people who live there forever and at the end of the day I think he was an awful person.

AIBU?

Also racism was totally normal and accepted in the 40s and 50s. No Blacks no Irish etc. So hating the Japs within that context is different. The world has moved on. Thankfully.

Not the point of this thread, I know, but Japan surrendered when it's government was able to assess the damage done to Hiroshima- as soon as it was able to assess the damage done - this was not instant, it took time, days to get there, days to report back,

Whatever the justification for bombing Hiroshima, and it might well have been necessary, I suspect it was.

There was NO similar justification for bombing Nagasaki - Japan was going to surrender.

Although numbers are contested, it is widely accepted that 1 in every 50 of the Iraqi population died as a result of violence following the 2003 invasion by foreign armies of which the US and Britain made up by far the largest numbers.
Would you tell an Iraqi who had lost family or friends that they were being unreasonable to hate people from the countries who invaded?

I agree with you, but then is anyone really surprise that the US had to make a Hollywood blockbuster about how hard what they did was, but ultimately it was for the right reasons so they are, however sad about their actions , the good guys.
It's very messed up

Yes. Google the Rape of Nan King by Iris Chang..Horrific. When great atrocities are being committed, very strong measures tend to be employed against the perpetrators.

Children were killed when the bomb was dropped on Osama Bin Laden (and in at least one other, unsuccessful, attempt to kill him). Was that justified?

You may not think so - but there's a discussion to be had

Yes - the war may have been over in Europe, but it wasn't over in the Pacific. I'm not justifying those bombs, but the entire Pacific rim was terrified of the direction that the Japanese Government was taking at that time. If the movie is any good, it will reflect those awful situations that toltarian government and war give rise to.

@saltinesandcoffeecups I was devastated by the 'Rape of Nanking,' one description of a Japanese assault on a Chinese girl I will never get out of my mind. But I am still critical of any targeting of civilians during war. I think Kurt Vonnegut was very critical of the bombing of Dresden too, even if it ended the war. It's knowingly killing kids and all sorts of vulnerable, unarmed people.

Could say the same about the number of movies the UK has created about their involvement in the World Wars so..

Horrific, but different to deliberately nuking a civilian population. If I recall the bomb on Hiroshima was timed for around 9am so that people would be commuting to work and school.

Look closer to home in Northern Ireland...there's still a lot of bad feeling between Catholics and Protestants who have lost family members. Things improving in younger generations now. I think it does take a generation for memories to fade and people to get past these things.

And there is plenty of distrust and people who don't like Muslims as a result of Islamic terrorism. It's a totally normal human reaction, especially for people who are less educated, less well travelled, have fewer material advantages etc.

At risk of being patronising they were the bad guys. They, the Germans and the Japanese, started it. If they hadn't there would not have been an atom bomb raid. Let's just think for the sake of argument that the atom bomb likely saved many times more lives than it cost by shortening the war. The question I would put to you is would you sacrifice these countless extra deaths for a political, pacifist principle. You probably would and that is all that is wrong with the arguments of those who would not have dropped the bomb under any circumstances. Let's allow a million to be killed to save a quarter of that number. It's a lunatic idea. I of course wish the atom bomb had never been invented, that WW2 and other wars never happened but they did and sad to say the atom bomb was necessary to bring the war to an end despite the protestations of the ill informed, history revisionists of today!

Truly horrific. To be honest I can kind of get why they dropped the first bomb but was there really any need to bomb Nagasaki as well. I guess ultimately governemnts do not care about civilians of other countries. If they did we would not have many of the terrible situations we have around the world to this day

@GrinAndVomit
"What’s pathetic is to think dropping an atomic bomb on millions of innocent civilians is ok because they were “the bad guys” and not going to give in.

Were we not going to fight until the last man was standing too? Would Japan have been justified in dropping the A bomb on us for similar reasons?"

If at that moment in time you flipped the sides round so the USA/UK/Allies were the brutal, barbaric, hellbent on no surrender ones whilst Japan wasn't & wanted the war to end, then no I wouldn't have blamed Japan on using an atomic bomb.

Like other pp have said although we can abhor what has happened in the past, we are wrong to judge it through modern eyes.
None of us were there at the time (well apart from those who were children/young adults)

And I hate anyone who supports ISIS/DAESH, which isn't surprising considering 2 members of my family luckily escaped being blown to bits at the Manchester Arena Ariana concert.
I don't think I'm being racist as I am aware many Muslims also hate DAESH too.
So I don't despise all people of the Muslim faith or any faith just the ones that support DAESH.

That is because of the times we live in as we have more understanding of different cultures & we see people as individuals not groups.
And I like to think that the majority of human beings are decent, kind people regardless of their religion/culture/skin colour etc

However stick that Manchester bombing back in the 1940/50s & I probably might have been likely to despise anyone of the Muslim faith

Given that he is reported to have said "I have become Death, destroyer of worlds." when he saw what he had created and that he didn't say it in a pantomime evil villain way, I think it's fair to say that Oppenheimer wasn't evil incarnate. It would have been better for all of us if the atomic bomb had never came into being but at the time he was working on it everyone feared that the Nazi's were a few steps ahead of everyone else. If he hadn't done it someone else would. If not then, then soon after. It was inevitable. The film encompasses all of that and more. You only have to look at the trailers to see that this is not a film glorifying death and destruction.

I'm hoping to see it next week along with the Barbie movie. Apparently you should see Oppenheimer first and then Barbie as a palate cleanser because, surprise, surprise, Oppenheimer is a bit on the dark side.

eath, destroyer of worlds."

And that’s a very privileged position to take. I hope you realize that.

Exactly. You don't equate modern Germany with Nazism. The Imperialist Japanese Goverment was much like the Nazi Government - expansionist and genocidal. If you think of Nazism and Nihon Gonkoku along the same lines, I think it illustrates the fear that the Pacific rim was experiencing at that time.

If the UK had had the bomb during world war 2, would dropping it on Berlin have been the right thing to do?

Oppenheimer was a vocal campaigner against nuclear weapons.

We thought firebombing Dresden was fine, so probably?

If I'd have grown up during the war I would have most likely hated all Japanese/Germans because it was a different time then.
Back then we didn't have the understanding & knowledge we have now, although there may have been some outliers like if you'd had a Japanese or German friend/neighbour/spouse you may have seen things a differently.

Back then there was no internet, no tv & the majority of people around the world hadn't a clue about different countries/culture.
Many people fear what they don't know or don't have experience of.
We are very lucky to live now as we know & experience so much more compared to back then.

He may have helped to develop the technology but he didn't pull the trigger, he didn't start the war,

The overall question, why go to war, no war no loss of life.

Looking at it from the luxury of a 2023 viewpoint, no.

Looking at it from a 1940's viewpoint then yes.

As has been quoted previously on this thread
‘THE PAST IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY: THEY DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY'

for context if this was possible given the current situation with Russia, what are peoples perspectives of it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IS7xtxg4-XM&t=17s&pp=ygUZcnVzc2lhIGFuZCBkYW5pZWwgamFja3Nvbg%3D%3D

I’ve lost interest in the thread as a whole but really want to plug a really good book that I’v listened to. War Diary: The Diary of Mike Rogers https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09CB8PYNL?ref=adbl_mfpdp_mbr

it’s a war diary of a 13 yo boy at the beginning of the war through him turning 18. It’s not super exciting, but delivers an almost day by day report of the war. I learned a lot! (he especially likes movies and the weather)

I actually learned a lot!