To be uncomfortable with the film Oppenheimer?

[LKM23]

I haven't seen the film, I'm sure it's a brilliant thriller and will be a Blockbuster hit. I don't think I'll watch it though, it makes my feel really uncomfortable.

It feels like a man who at the end of the day killed thousands of people and damaged millions is being celebrated and turned into a hero.

I lived in Japan for 10 years in my twenties. I visited both Hiroshima and Nagasaki and spent a lot of time with people both directly and indirectly affected by the dropping of the bombs. Those scars are real and still there and will be for a very very long time. It changed Japan and the people who live there forever and at the end of the day I think he was an awful person.

AIBU?

That’s extremely simplistic. There were many factors which led to our victory.

The fuel the Luftwaffe used in their aircraft to blitz Britain was supplied by the Soviets.

War is nasty.
Atomic warfare is evil.

All’s fair in love and war.

The past is another country

Sorry op but it sounds like a case of “I’ve visited the country and know people from there, so I know more than the rest of you and get to make a judgment that it’s all in bad taste.”

But really you’ve got a few impressions and snapshots of a country today, which far from resembles what was a very complex period of history.
Ironically it is similar to watching a movie trailer and making a conclusion without watching the full movie - but amplified by a million.

Maybe rather than take offense, try to see this thread as a turning point. If you recognize you have a judgment on something, and this usually applies to all topics, immerse yourself in it. With valuable and diverse sources. Keep on digging. If you still feel convinced, dig some more. Because few things are ever good vs. bad, black vs. white, 100 percent certain etc. Read the things you know you will hate. Hear the people out who have a different opinion to you. Don’t hub them. This is a good habit for most areas of life, especially if you feel yourself tempted to go keyboard warrior on it.

Don’t hun* them

But is it more evil that firebombing civilians, or deliberate genocidal starvation of civilians, or medical experimentation on living people, or any of the other things mentioned in this thread?

Watch the film OP.

I have seen it, it is more about ethics in science than heroizing Oppenheimer. It certainly doesn’t heroize the bombings or the man, it is a very humanizing , emotional film with a lot of nuance. I cried my way through most of the last hour and it has lingered with me….it is not a dumb blockbuster, it is extremely through provoking on a variety of levels and one of the most thought provoking films I’ve seen in years. No, it doesn’t give the Japanese perspective, it is the perspective of one brilliant but very flawed scientist.

The Soviets were the most important reason we won.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ve-day-70th-anniversary-we-should-never-forget-the-soviets-won-world-war-ii-in-europe-10239369.html

It’s all evil. What’s your point? That Japanese civilians deserved it more?

It's a very much larger range of destruction and power, from far away in safety rather than in combat, annihilation in an instant without warning and rendering the land uninhabitable for years to come. Very different type and scale of threat and it threatens to wipe out much of the world.

Do you think it’s acceptable for anyone who was in or affected by 7/7 or 9/11 to ‘hate all Muslims’? Of course not. But this is how the thinking starts.

I have a friend who fought in Iraq, of course he doesn’t hate Iraqi’s, no matter what some of them did to him and his comrades.

Come on, this thinking is unacceptable and you know it. It excuses xenophobia and racism. It allows racist/xenophobic thinking and lets it continue, encourages it to grow. It’s what racists pray upon. Dont excuse his hatred of a nation of people, many of whom were and are innocent. There are no good reasons.

I think what you’re saying is true in a perfect world, but doesn’t take into account extremes.

Generations that are alive today, no, there is no justification to hate anyone because of their race. None.

But the war generation experienced something that (I really hope) we’ll never have to. It was extreme. It’s something we cannot possibly understand. Like others on this thread, I have (had) relatives who were Japanese POW’s. Their treatment was beyond barbaric. While one relative survived, he had many long term issues as a result of his treatment. It was never ever spoken about. Even when the compensation payments were made, I was gifted the full amount - he wanted nothing to do with the blood money (as he thought it) and wanted a younger generation to use it in a positive way.

Could I blame him for not being particularly fond of Japan and her people? No! Obviously it would be wrong if I continued that hate - I don’t. I can fully recognise that the current Japanese population had nothing to do with what happened then. But don’t blame the war generation for their very valid feelings.

I’ll be interested to see this film.

The book is very good but very hard to read.

You said the rest of WW2 was just “nasty”, but the A bomb was “evil”. I’m pointing out there was plenty of evil on both sides, the A bomb wasn’t uniquely evil in comparison with everything else that was going on at the time.

I’m not suggesting we should drop any more, just pointing out the historical context. I’m a pacifist, I don’t think we should have any wars. I just can’t see a difference between dropping a nuclear bomb and firebombing a city, if the same number of people end up dying very similar deaths as a result.

Don’t be ridiculous, it’s isn’t a generational thing. People are dying around the world in war today. I have heard Ukrainians say they don’t hate Russia, they hate Putin and his cronies but not the Russian people who take no part in the war. Of course the shit that happened during wars was barbaric and I cannot imagine what it felt like to go through it, but saying it’s okay they’re racist or xenophobic because they’re of that generation is bollocks.

I’ll repeat to you what I said to the other poster:

Do you think it’s acceptable for anyone who was in or affected by 7/7 or 9/11 to ‘hate all Muslims’? Of course not. But this is how the thinking starts.

I have a friend who fought in Iraq, of course he doesn’t hate Iraqi’s, no matter what some of them did to him and his comrades.

Come on, this thinking is unacceptable and you know it. It excuses xenophobia and racism. It allows racist/xenophobic thinking and lets it continue, encourages it to grow. It’s what racists pray upon. Dont excuse his hatred of a nation of people, many of whom were and are innocent. There are no good reasons

Allied personnel were men who were trained for battle. The children who had their clothes burned off of them were children so no it’s not a fair comparison. There is no justification for killing civilians in War imo.

I think it’s important to learn about horrific events like Hiroshima or the Holocaust but I agree that some of the discourse online about people’s excitement to see the film has been uncomfortable and doesn’t reflect the serious nature of the subject matter. I haven’t actually seen it yet so will reserve judgement on the actual film itself.

Thank you. A very eloquent post. I can't tell you what a wonderful man my dad was. He would do anything for anybody. Do I blame him for hating the Japanese? No. Do I hate this current Japanese generation? Of course not.

In WW2, the Japanese believed themselves to be the master race and that every other race was sub human. I think hatred of the Japanese on that basis is akin to hatred of the Nazis.

The Japanese killed millions of civilians, mainly Chinese. Millions more than the Nazis killed, and over a longer period.

You just showed your own hypocrisy there. Why do you say hatred of the Nazis and not Germans? Why are you willing to separate Nazis from Germans?

None of that justifies dropping atomic bombs over a nation that the US knew was surrendering.

I’m talking about hatred of a regime.

Putting the film aside, just because there were bad men and women in Japan who did many evil things still doesn’t justify on any level children having their clothes burned off or dying from burns and radiation sickness. Maybe you could immerse yourself in photographs of the aftermath of those atrocities and see if it has any impact on your perspective.

My dad was preparing himself for being called up in 1945, to assist in the Allied invasion of Japan. The bomb stopped that, and as he was apprenticed in the building trade he never did get called up. He escaped call up for the Korean War too. My old Headmaster was a prisoner of the Japanese in Singapore. If you read of the inhumane way they treated their prisoners the quicker that theatre of war was brought to an end the better. The two bombs were also a message to the Soviets and other belligerant states that they would not win a war against the allies without risking total annihilation. Yes, it was horrible, but the Japanese in 1945 were not the nation they are today.