Taking children to potentially unsafe country

[Pred1cament]

My husband and I aren’t in a great place. Together 15 years, married 8, 2 dc 1 and 5. We don’t argue and he has a lot of good qualities, but various issues over the years have sent us both in a bit of a spiral where we don’t feel particularly loved by the other, and it becomes a vicious cycle. We had a big chat last night and both said we want to make it work, but effort needs to be made big time on both of our parts. I’m definitely in the ‘what about the kids’ way in thinking about what if we split up. One issue we’ve always had is he’s African and he doesn’t think I take enough interest in his culture. There are various reasons for this that I could go into but will make this super long. But I do agree to an extent that I could show more interest. He goes home every couple of years. His home country isn’t a war zone or anything but it’s deprived and only a few weeks ago one of his friends and he were talking about if you become ill whilst visiting then there’s a high chance you won’t come out of hospital. My husband has lost 3 brothers who still lived there. His parents have never met our kids. We always said we’d go out there when they are a bit older but now his parents are getting old and his dad in particular is in ill health. He said last night he really wants us to all go out there next year. I expressed my concerns about healthcare which he kid of just dismissed, but I said if it’s important to him that we’ll go. I’m now worrying about it and what if my kids get ill whilst there. AIBU to say I don’t want us to go given I do admit I need to try harder with his family. I know if it was the other way round my parents would be devastated to have never met my kids. I just can’t shake the safety side of things. Please go easy on me, I was a bit shocked by some of what he said last night as although I knew we do t have a lot of time for each other at the moment I didn’t realise we were quite so far into the spiral of potentially not staying together forever. Thanks for reading.

There are elections in August this year which could change the stability of the regime, so hang on until after August to book. At least you will have a better idea of what's happening.

Also plan your inoculations so your little ones don't feel too poorly. Check what is needed for each area. A rabies jab is a good idea for small children who might pet stray dogs or cats.

Otherwise, plenty of travel insurance and don't stray too far from the city.

How can people live their lives with this much anxiety?! Being kidnapped while you're with your husband in his home country? Him suddenly deciding to destruct his own life to keep your children there and divorce you? These are highly highly unlikely to happen. What's more likely to happen is you have a lovely time in a new place, you get a few mosquito bites and a bad belly, your mixed race children get made a fuss of by everyone who sees them, and you'll come home with a renewed appreciation of your life and marriage in the UK.

People are always like this when Africa and Asia are mentioned

Not specifically Africa and Asia but any country far away that getting children out of would be complicated if the marriage broke down 🤷‍♀️

YABU

It's Harare. It's not a thatched jungle hut in the Congo.

Thank you xx

Zimbabwe is an amazing country and you can get to South Africa or Botswana pretty quickly if you need medical assistance. There are hospitals in Harare and I think Bulawayo that should be fine for an emergency.

you do need malaria protection but Malarone in jam always worked for us

I am more surprised that you have been with this man for 15 years, yet know so little about his country. Your DC's heritage.

I'm next door in a different African country. Please take up the offers of the Zimbabwean posters who gave offered you direct advice. And I hope that you will really consider going to visit the family.

I’m here to say I’m shocked by your deep mistrust of Zim. You really really need to give your head a wobble.

The chances of the kids getting sick are slim, if they are you do what everyone else with money is you fly to SA. You take forex (preferably dollars) and of course you will be seen. There is a completely two tire system. Your children are half Zimbabwean, they are one of the most welcoming countries I have ever visited. They need to connect with their relatives. I recently moved back after 8 years in Southern Africa and spent 6 weeks every summer with my parents. They would never have complained about us staying too long.

Presumably there are private hospitals which are affordable to tourists I would imagine?

My mum grew up in an African country and we visited loads until family moved at age 11.

-get malarone - worth the money
-your husband will know what to pack and not pack, where to go and not go, you are family not tourists - you will be safer
-take stuff you don’t care about mainly so you don’t stress
-be religious about kids’ mozzie nets, wearing shoes outside, not eating salad. Don’t swim in any rivers. Basically, you should take precautions against malaria and parasites.
-sadly there are local hospitals and city hospitals and you will be able to go to SA if there is something that goes horribly wrong.
-get proper travel insurance - where you explain existing conditions etc.

-make sure you tell kids that snakes aren’t friends if they have a love of them!

I would see it as adventure of a lifetime and amazed that you’ve not been before after so many years with that man. Maybe there is more to this that healthcare issues.
You’re children will be safe and happy, surrounded by family.

it was a fantastic experience that I loved- such great memories that I think of often.

Kids don’t need to know about the invisible worries, just the ones they can chase around a garden freaking out absolutely everyone 🐍 else. (Also got to meet the snake catcher that day which is another life time memory.)

I have friends from Zim with 3 tiny children. They often visit home and stay for months.

I hate to say this but they're white from wealthy families, which may make a difference.

My biggest concern would be the state of your marriage. It's not ideal visiting a DH's home country if there is any possibility at all that he could decide not to return to the UK, and you end up with an international custody battle.
As for health and safety, that wouldn't stop me. Get good insurance and you can even hire personal security if you feel the need but it would be unusual to do so when your DH's family live there.

Could you meet them in South Africa?

Im sorry but you should have made an effort to learn a bit of his language

I have travelled extensively and have visited many African countries…, Kenya , Tanzania, Uganda , Ghana , Nigeria, to name a few
People have these preconceived ( largely) negative view of Africa which is often not the reality.
Of course there is abject poverty / slums but there are also very lovely areas and medical care is often top tier in large cities.
Just take the necessary precautions ( drink bottled water, get all your jabs, get travel insurance , stay in the city centre)
Your dcs are entitled to learn about their father’s culture and spend time with his parents( their grandparents)
They will be spoiled rotten and will have a great time

Btw I am a white , blonde woman and have never felt unsafe.
You will be with your dh who understands the culture and will guide you

I understand your concerns to some extent, OP. My dh is from a very rural area in a developing country and I did find it hard to get my head around taking my dd there initially. However, she has been there lots of times since she was a tiny baby, because its her dad's home country and lots of her extended family are there.

Quite apart from your DH's complaints that you're not taking enough interest in his culture - which do sound valid fwiw - I think the bit that you seem to be missing is that your children have a right to experience that side of their own heritage. You're trying to keep them safe, understandably, but in doing so, you're depriving them of a significant part of their identity. And that matters.

Personally, I think you need to plan what you can do to minimise any risks, then face your fears and go. I also think you need to make a bit more effort with the language... after 8 years, you should be able to at least understand a lot of what's being said, even if you aren't confident about speaking. Have you made an effort to learn?

I would go but stay in an international
Quality hotel do less awkward with family, perhaps he can pay for his parents to join you if that's not awfully rude?

I can completely understand how difficult and scary it feels. I don't know if it helps at all to remind yourself that people travel around the world all the time and are mostly fine. When my kids were born, we were living in my partner's country. The public health system there is terribly under-resourced and in my time there, several people in the community we lived in, including one of my partner's brothers, died from things that they likely wouldn't have in the UK. It was a very poor, very vulnerable community. The private healthcare was better, but nothing like the UK, and it cost a lot on the occasions that we did use it for our kids. (We got a local, private health insurance after the first $$$ hospital experience!)

However, it was truly incredible for my kids to spend those very special years with their family there, and despite living in a poor community with very poor basic services - contaminated tap water, no indoor/flush toilets - the kids were mainly fine. They got the usual bugs and colds that kids in the UK get.

In my job I also organized a lot of learning-exchange trips for high school and uni students from "developed" countries to come and stay a week or two in the community and live in local homes, etc. None of our visitors ever got seriously ill, when people did get ill it was usually a stomach complaint or common cold/flu which they usually had picked up on the plane.

In all likelihood, the worst you or your kids would get would be an annoying and unlucky case of food poisoning. You can pack a mini pharmacy that will be able to cover most illnesses (Imodium, rehydration sachets, paracetamol, Alka seltzer, etc.). In the case that something more serious were to happen, it's highly unlikely that it would be anything so bad that it would prevent you from travelling, so you could just fly home.

If you can find a way to relax a bit about the medical situation, this could be the trip of a lifetime for you and your children. I hope you can get some good travel insurance, maybe research private clinics with A&E depts near where you will be staying (just in case), get all your vaccines up to date, pack well, and go an have a blast with your husband's family!

My children were taken ill in Tanzania last summer@Pred1cament The medical care they received was first rate and (provided you can pay) much quicker and easier to access than the nhs. I'm sure it's the same in Harare which is hardly the back of beyond. Just make sure your insurance includes medivac.

The problem is that if you’re I’ll and you’re admitted to a local hospital it will be logistical nightmare to transfer you to a better hospital or flown out.
the local hospitals won’t care if you have insurance, they will want to take as much money from you, as possible. Getting transfer to someone else will be just based on pot luck, you’ll have to arrange everything yourself.

if your kids are healthy, then this shouldn’t be a problem

No way would I go or take DC there. It's sad his family don't know your dc but that's something he must have thought likely when he decided not to return there permanently. I couldn't cope with the stress of worrying about our safety in an unstable country. I think you're right to be worried.