WTF won't Labour, Lib Dems (& potentially the Greens) endorse tactical voting?

[Pipsquiggle]

This is obviously prompted by the by election result in Uxbridge. If there was no Lib Dem candidate, Labour could have won that seat (assuming their votes went to Labour).

I'll make no bones about it. I really dislike the Tories and want them out ASAP. Their policies have embedded generational poverty in so many parts of the UK. I reside in the home counties, a Tory stronghold seat - my middle class neighbours have zero clue how hard it is to grow up in a poor part of the country and thrive.

I want Labour to win a huge majority with other left leaning parties also getting seats. I would love electoral reform - PR and mandatory voting. The first past the post system is just shit and doesn't represent how the country voted.

YABU - Political parties should not endorse tactical voting, it's fine as it is

YANBU - Tactical voting should be encouraged as the FPTP voting system is shit

We've definitely seen more marginal voting in the byelections and council elections recently. But then there was kind of a dearth of it at the 2019 GE- the Tories ended up with a lot of seats where the combined left of centre vote was higher than theirs. So maybe it's a pendulum swinging back thing.

Agree. AV was a shit proposal. The Tories knew which is why they let them do it. Nick Clegg is / was a total disaster for the Lib Dems

I reluctantly voted against the PR proposal at the time. I believe the system should be reformed, but that one was a complete non-runner.

Re the gender debate: let's face it, the reason Tories want to be quite clear who is a woman is so they know who and how to oppress them more effectively.

Re the gender debate: let's face it, the reason Tories want to be quite clear who is a woman is so they know who and how to oppress them more effectively.

Totally agree with @Anniegetyourgun on this point.

The abysmal rape conviction rates alone just blow my mind.

There's a realistic chance Penny Mordaunt will be leading the Tories into the next GE, and she isn't even one of the ones who knows what a woman is. Any of my fellow GC feminists who think the Tories can be trusted on this issue are kidding themselves.

How will they have mandate for that if it’s not an election pledge?

You mean the same Tories who have been in power since the beginning of the trans debate? The same Tories who have failed to do anything to address concerns raised? The same Tories who's policies in general disproportionately impact women? The same Tories who have members aligned to NatCon ideologies and think women should only play a supporting role to their "man" in life.

Yes, voting to keep the tories in power is a great way to help women, in the same way hacking you leg off above the knee is great way to stop a stubbed toe from hurting.

I don’t think tactical voting will always go
the “right” way. On high level principles I’m much more aligned with Conservatives values than Labour values. If my preferred option wasn’t available, I’d vote Conservative. And so my vote to say, Lib Dem, might help Labour’s cause - so they won’t want me to tactical vote.

I think the electorate should do their research on who they want to win/lose and vote tactically if they so choose. If people aren’t educated or savvy enough to do that, then they should still be able to vote for who they want to win (and I’m not sure parties supporting tactical voting will really help in that case).

Tactical voting also truly gives us a two party system. I know we have that already but the LibDemCon coalition was us on the verge of breaking away from that - and we might do that again this time with (as I see it) no truly favourable party to vote for.

Hmm at Penny Mordaunt cropping up again. Some were convinced she would win last leadership campaign. They were wrong.

Thrilled to have non Tory MP now in Somerton and Frome. Especially as our last MP (Warburton, Tory) did literally nothing except sniff coke, grope women without permission, hide in psychiatric units and claim expenses.

Sad that nearly half the electorate didn’t vote though, I realise many people feel politically homeless right now (myself included but I held my nose and voted tactically), but I would have thought the turnout would be better in light of the absolute shit show that is the Tory government.

How do you feel about the left taking the SNP approach?

That is horrific

And me. Anyone who gives a shit about women's rights shouldn't be in a rush to see the current Labour Party in power.

Should add I want rid of the Tories too. We need another alternative. I am politically homeless.

I agree - my vote is wasted every time because I live in a Labour stronghold with the most misogynistic MP and no other fucker stands a chance. I've taken to voting for shits and giggles - I voted Green in the last GE and NOTA (obviously spoiled my ballot) in the local council elections because there wasn't an Independent candidate and because not one of the candidates gives a flying fuck about our area & couldn't even be bothered to canvass for my vote. I detest all political parties and their ideologies. In other words I'm joining people in the politically homeless camp.

I'd be surprised if the Lib Dems don't have it in their manifesto.

Those people voting Labour would need it in their manifesto

That’s why it’s a referendum after the GE as both parties won’t commit beforehand.

It’s a major issue and would require democratic votes in support to go ahead

They were. And in the year since, one of the people who beat her has already been booted out and the other is hardly assured in his position. Meanwhile, she quite clearly still wants the job.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rishi hang on to the bitter end. Its plausible. But so is them booting him out. If they do, who do you think they'll go for if not her?

There are some right weird fuckers on Mumsnet. I can’t believe certain posters think that the gender stuff is more important that the state of the NHS, the cost of living, the worst housing crisis since WW2, the fact people are getting poorer. You are all so obsessed with transgender people. Get a sodding grip and look at the real issues. Would you rather a child go hungry than a trans woman uses a woman’s loo?

Utter bollocks.

Practically speaking, this isn't how coalition government works. Coalitions enact policy that wasn't in the manifesto of all parties. Sometimes they even enact policy that one of the parties had a manifesto policy against. We saw that in 2010-15. The question is whether the Lib Dems would hold enough cards to be able to enforce it. That also depends on how the SNP do.

I want a wider range of candidates to choose from. We have a ridiculously limited number already. Withdrawing candidates doesn't lead to switch voting, it leads to apathy and disconnection of the electorate.

YABU for assuming that Labour and the Lib Dems are on the same side. The last time the Lib Dems were a serious force, they went into coalition with the Conservatives. Several Labour insiders (who would of course be biased) saw Nick Clegg as politically much closer to the Conservatives.

I am anti-Tory but not displeased with the Uxbridge result. The electorate were swayed by a local issue because they disagree with Labour policy to extend the ULEZ. That's democracy in action! Also, from my anti-Tory viewpoint, the seat has been Conservative for the last 50 years so it's hardly a Labour target and should not affect their chances in the next election.

The thing that I found most interesting is the comparison between the Tory candidate who unexpectedly held Uxbridge, an ex-postman who became a manager for Royal Mail, and the victorious Labour candidate in Selby who went to private school followed by Oxford and has worked as a political advisor. The old Tory middle-class / Labour working-class dichotomy is dead, it would seem.

@Hannahsbananas but the whole gender ideology mess like trans women in female prisons and trans women in female sport has happened under the tories.
Sunak and his cronies might say they know what a woman is but they say that they know how to run the economy and that they are for the most part brexit supporters but we can see how that’s gone.
Surely if you want to vote for them, do it.

I'm shocked to find that there are people out their that believe governments should be elected on their record in office, their policies, people connecting with them etc rather than fiddling the system to get who they want into power.

I pretty much hate all sorts of gerrymandering. Because once it starts where does it actually stop - let me guess, gerrymandering that puts who we want in power is good, but when it benefits people we don't want its bad.

You can’t just push through a major change without mandate. I’m sure they were no nicer back in 2011 and if they could have would have done it.

Why would you want that system anyway? It’s undemocratic.

If it’s not in Labour’s manifesto all those votes are not automatically saying yes to it.

People seem all for democracy unless it’s what they don’t want then whatever goes.

So hypocritical.