To wonder what all the fuss is about ULEZ

[Winterday1991]

Hardly anyone is affected, only if you have a very old car. No, you should not be free to pollute the air by driving around in a polluting vehicle and so should have to pay a penalty to do so.

It annoys me as everyone agrees we need to tackle climate change, but no one wants the hit on their life/ change their lifestyles.

Drenched, some asthma is brought on by allergies, they are interlinked

The very hardworking young gardener who looks after our communal areas was certainly not happy about having to buy a new van for all the kit he needs - or pay £12.50 every single time he goes to work, I.e. 5 or 6 days a week.
Small business owners like him are disproportionately affected.

Dh’s car is non compliant but we use it only for relatively long journeys which don’t happen very often - it’s a lot bigger and more comfortable than mine - so we will just have to cough up until he gets around to replacing it, but we can afford it. It’s a diesel, and ironically at the time he bought it, the official line was that diesels were more environmentally friendly.

I use my own, compliant, smaller car far less than I used to (dh uses it rather more) but that’s because we have very good public transport locally (outer SW London). If I want to visit dds, both around 60 miles away, it’s a different matter, though.

Disproportionately affected? Or was disproportionately emitting pollutants?

You could easily argue that a daily charge is actually quite proportionate

ironically at the time he bought it, the official line was that diesels were more environmentally friendly.
that hasn’t changed, they are still better than many petrol cars for global warming (Co2) but less good for nox and particulate emissions, although there are diesels that are ULEZ compliant.

Lol at the idea anywhere in Bromley is "very rural".

Fair comment. Rural compared to many parts of London. Not rural compared to open countryside! But hard to compare Crystal Palace with Downe and they're both in Bromley Borough.

I can't work out whether it's Lady Bountiful or Marie Antoinette here.

"I've got a great big gas guzzling 4x4 that is compliant and live in a rural area that is not rural at all actually because it's on the Central Line but I care about the little people who aren't as rich as me and need to get to hospital but I don't care about children or adults already living and dying in their homes with asthma or COPD."

Or "My gardener has had to replace his van and he's ticked off about it."

Or: "I live in a rural area. Well, it's not exactly rural. Well it's Bromley actually but we haven't got a tube line. Just buses and an overground railway."

Or "Sometimes I want to see a West End show and I can't work out how the train tickets work or object to paying a one-off £12.50 charge or God forbid, maybe a double charge for midnight to midnight because those West End theatre tickets and dinner are so cheap, aren't they?"

@limitedperiodonly NO IT’S NOT ON THR CENTRAL LINE. I LIVE 30 MINIUTES AWAY FROM EPPING AS I CLEARLY SAID ABOVE. Why are you making stuff up?! And I never said that I don’t care about people with lung conditions. But unfortunately life isn’t black and white and something that will have a positive effect on some will have a negative effect on others. People being unable to access hospitals for appointments and work has the potential for a negative effect on health too.

There is no need to shout.

You are correct in that life isn’t black and white and something that will have a positive effect on some will have a negative effect on others.

I think ULEZ is a good thing and you disagree.

It has been passed.

@limitedperiodonly yes there was because you were making rubbish up and taking the piss out of people. Completely uncalled for.

I love and defend Essex against all comers but even I cannot say it is rural. Not even the bits that Jamie Oliver's dad had a pub and people say is: "almost Suffolk, you know."

Nowhere on a tube line such as Epping or Theydon Bois is rural. Most places in Essex are within easy reach of a main line station to Liverpool Street in the City, The Elizabeth Line makes it even better.

Essex has easy connections to London. I know it because I've lived there and have friends and family who come to see me.

That's fantastic but just admit it. Essex is not rural. Neither is Bromley which someone ludicrously claimed. Parts of them are pretty and they have good transport links.

It is as legitimate for me to care about little girls who die of pollution-related asthma as it is for you to care about people who want to drive polluting cars.

But then the answer is better public transport, rather than the right to kill people with pollution.

@Indigotree which should be in place before introducing the charge to outer London.

@limitedperiodonly some of Essex absolutely bloody is rural. Why are you making up shit again. Rural Essex

@limitedperiodonly from my house to central London travelling completely by public transport (i.e. not driving to a station) is 1.45 to 2 hours each way. So not all of Essex is well connected. And my first bus leaves at 9.00am so not much good for travelling to work.

Interesting fact for you- Essex has more rural schools than any other LA.
72% of Essex is rural.
I presume you once went to Loughton and confused it with the county? It’s a massive place with some unusual problems on managing its number of rural communities.

Nobody cares about people who want to drive polluting cars, they care about people who can’t afford not to.

Interesting that they don’t seem to care about vulnerable people and children living on the now gridlocked boundary roads caused by low traffic neighbourhoods in my part of London. We’re already in the ULEZ.

I've lived in two parts of Essex that were rural.

Anyway if Essex residents are unhappy with ULEZ they need to get onto Essex County Council and central government for funding to change their cars.

The Mayor of London only has responsibility for Londoners.

I went on a day trip to a very rural part of Essex last week (Dengle peninsula). Didn't have a phone signal all afternoon.

@limitedperiodonly You do realise that everyone who lives in Essex (as I do) doesn't just want to travel from Essex into Central London. Some of us want to travel within Essex. Public transport is not able to give you a direct route and you often have to travel into the nearest main Essex town so you are able to pick up a bus to travel out of it. Takes double the time it does to drive. And let's be perfectly clear ULEZ is not about air pollution, it's about propping up TFL - if it was all polluting cars would be banned outright. They are not though because they are still able to travel around London if they cough up £12.50.

Outer London hates being told what to do by those bastards from Inner London. They never wanted to be part of Greater London anyway. They were all quite happy doing their own thing until the blasted GLC came along in 1965. Doesn't matter if it's Ken's "Fares Fair" policy or Sadiq's "ULEZ". If it came from County/City Hall, Outer London's against it.

Definitely

Clare bear, who doesn't care? The leading scientists and medics? Those gridlock boundary roads you speak of are full of cars. Traffic jams are caused by traffic. Fewer cars on the road would help those vulnerable people living on those roads.

That's what I keep thinking. And many cars are compliant, including that diesel-guzzling 4X4 of@Dibblydoodahdah. Not that fuel consumption is the driver behind ULEZ.

I cannot understand people defending the right to drive polluting vehicles over other people's right to breathe clean air.

I've said many times that the Government should step in with a more generous scrappage system because clean air is a public health issue and that is absolutely the responsibility of central Government with local councils being free to introduce local initiatives.

But Rishi Sunak has just announced a ban for assistance with Low Traffic Neighbourhoods like as if there is an international socialist conspiracy to make it easier to walk to the shops.

He is desperate for votes and people might be stupid enough to go for it so it's worth the gamble.