Settle a private v state argument for me?

[Givemyheadpiece]

Friend sent kids to prep schools, and now doing senior private schools til GSCE.

then the plan is to put the kids in state school for A levels to ‘fool’ the Uni admissions people - Oxbridge in particular- into thinking the kids were state schooled all along and get them into good unis - as many universities are now trying to give more bright state schooled/ low income kids a chance to get in.

I told her that they can see which school the kids studied at pre 6th form and that will be considered -

YANBU - of course it won’t fool admissions
YABU - she’s right, you can go Eton all the way then switch for A levels and no-one will know

Is the message 'it will be better for uni applications' just cover for the parents needing to save money and this is trying to make a virtue out of a necessity.

It wouldnt work for contextual offers

Whether it would work for just getting a normal offer at all i dont know.

I think overall getting the best grade you can is the best way to get to the university you want.

Is starting A level courses at the end of year 11 really a thing? I have never known this happen in the schools I worked in or that DTs attended. Once the last exam was done, year 11 disappeared. Thos intending to study English Lit might be given a few books to read, and a friend’s daughter intending to start learning Greek in sixth form was instructed to learn the alphabet, but that was it.
Any new starters in sixth form could be given the same tasks.

‘Just keep out of it. People do this kind of thing all ths time. Not worth arguing about.’

we were talking about schools. It was relevant. Didn’t occur to me to not say a thing.

'Just keep out of it' - slightly condescending

This.

It’s not about “fooling” the university admissions team. It’s about allowing / enabling / making it easier for the university to offer a place to a predominantly privately educated applicant.

Fgs. There’s no such thing as a contextual versus a ‘normal’ offer. Oxbridge uses contextual data to assess the extent of student’s’ achievement in getting the grades they have, and to help understand potential.

kids from ‘ordinary’ backgrounds get into top universities based on talent and effort. They are not charity cases stealing places from more ‘deserving’ backgrounds.

Oxbridge have rigid targets for WP but, as things stand, the main stated targets of 'x% from state schools' is a very blunt instrument indeed. It can even be a way of avoiding taking students from underprivileged backgrounds because what you find is that these 'state school entrants' tend to be from grammars, academies and excellent comps with wealthy catchment areas. Yes I
Oxbridge monitor ACORN and POLAR data too, but these real signifiers of disadvantage don't seem to make the WP headlines in quite the same way. It all just gets fudged within the yearly claims of '75% of students from state schools in 2022, an increase of 2% on 2021!' or some such.

I am not sure why my reply made you feel I think they are charity cases stealing places? Couldnt be further from my thoughts. Must just be the way i worded it.

I apologise if i have misunderstood but i thought contextual offers were made when certain criteria were met such as being a looked after child, or going to a really low performing school, and that the offer could be a grade lower than the 'normal" entry requirements. I dont think just plonking your child in a normal state school is the kind of thing that leads to lowering the offer grades.

Are you saying all offers are contextual its just some contexts mean AAA is certain subjects is neeed and in other contexts AAB is needed with less strict requirements on the subjects.

And as i said i have no idea if someone is more likely to get an offer at from a state or private school but most offers are going to be to based on meeting the advertised entry requirements, so meeting the advertised entry requirements still seems like a goodplan to me.

I know it's a typo...
but I do love the idea of 'a great segway into Uni'

‘I know it's a typo...
but I do love the idea of 'a great segway into Uni'

or did I mean it literally 😅??

How to make an entrance on Day 1 of the first year!

There's loads of this going on where I live. I think pps are spot on when they say it gives universities an easy way to increase percentage of state educated pupils without trying too hard.

Fwiw, I work in an area much sought after by Oxbridge types and we do all our recruitment completely blind to where people have been to university. There is definitely a confidence to them but I wouldn't say that they do better over all - intellect is what really makes the difference, not polish and there are plenty of v bright kids from other universities.

Tbh I think it's a bit of a myth that private school students are being disadvantaged in the university entrance system. They are still over represented at Oxbridge and Russell grps just not as ridiculously dominant

Unis 100% look at where they did GCSEs. Especially Oxbridge. 6th form switching is frowned upon. Won't rule you out if you are a good student but certainly you won't get any state-educated levelling of the playing field. And you'd better get 3-4 A*s too, having had a privileged start.

Good, I'm glad to know that admission decisions are more than the last school someone went to.

They must be mad!

But Givemyheadpiece says :
'this 6th form in question is one of the best in the UK. Private or State. On 'outcomes' that is - either 'high value' uni admission or employment. Mostly Uni though. It's non-selective and incredibly diverse, yet still does very well.'

Sounds like they'd be mad NOT to make use of it. And as someone suggested upthread, they may need to save fees and save face.

I am fairly sure I am correct in saying that all Oxbridge offers are min AAA, never less.
No the context doesn’t change the offer.

Oxford now has funded foundation years for some subjects as part of their access programmes. They have min requirements of BBB but other contextual factors are also considered.

Hopefully they will realise that your DC are getting the advantage of a private school education a bet for a few short years and also they are not dealing with poverty.

Oxford tutors get data on not just school type pre AND post 16, but also about achievement levels at those schools and % eligible for free school meals. She’s fooling no one.

‘I am fairly sure I am correct in saying that all Oxbridge offers are min AAA, never less.’

not quite and there are plenty of kids at this 6th form excelling. Despite being from a wide range of back grounds and it’s being non selective… it’s almost as if bright kids in a good school don’t need to be spoon feed in private education…
in fact one of the criteria to get in is an interview where it’s made very clear that independence is key to their way of teaching.
So you, you family have to be aware of that and know you’re up for it. Otherwise there are a couple of other more- like- school 6th form options in the town that many opt for

Here’s a thought - why don’t they just make schooling anonymous on the application form? Discrimination is much harder this way.
ideally ethnicity and gender too - although this is harder to do at interview stage

It goes on. Children at DC’s independent school leave for the local sixth form (naice area) so they can have a taste of ‘walking to school and being independent’

It works.