Settle a private v state argument for me?

[Givemyheadpiece]

Friend sent kids to prep schools, and now doing senior private schools til GSCE.

then the plan is to put the kids in state school for A levels to ‘fool’ the Uni admissions people - Oxbridge in particular- into thinking the kids were state schooled all along and get them into good unis - as many universities are now trying to give more bright state schooled/ low income kids a chance to get in.

I told her that they can see which school the kids studied at pre 6th form and that will be considered -

YANBU - of course it won’t fool admissions
YABU - she’s right, you can go Eton all the way then switch for A levels and no-one will know

They are far more likely to get into Oxford or Cambridge from a private school. Look at the statistics. It’s a disgrace

I think it's idiotic. They will see straight through it. Also why pay tens of thousands of pounds for years on end to get your child a better education, and then take away all those advantages for A level, when top marks are hardest to get and most important to achieve? ‘

because the local 6th form is better than most 6th forms ANYWHERE in the area and they’d save £45k… that’s why… and as I mentioned they think it’ll will help with Uni applications

Op, I was being slightly facetious with my seeing the bigger picture comment

YANBU, totally idiotic.

Changing schools for 6th form can be hugely disruptive to the student: breaking up friendship groups, changing exam boards (losing any advantage of starting A level syllabus at the end of year 11), losing continuity, less support with uni applications.

Any contextual offer from unis is scant compensation for the disadvantages which earn these offers.

If the student is good enough with all the advantages private education brings then they will get a place at a good uni. If they aren't good enough they won't. Unis are not in the business of rejecting suitable students.

‘Changing schools for 6th form can be hugely disruptive to the student:’

or a great segway into Uni! Most the secondaries around here end at 16 and the kids all go to this amazing 6th form… fosters independence, no uniform, mix of classes and independent study…

Her bigger problem will be that her children are presumably not stupid and with their lovely expensive education will realise that their parents are playing the system. I hope she has some responses ready for when they ask her why she took such an unethical approach to their education rather than allowing them to apply for university without a double leg-up.

Check out Esher College or Peter Symonds. Full of London private parents gaming the system. Another favourite, ticking “first member of family to go to university” box. How are the universities going to know it’s not true? At the end of the day, if private parents feel like their offspring are being discriminated against due to their private education, they’ll try to mitigate against it. People will do what they can for their offspring. Has no one seen Operation Varsity Blues on Netflix? I’m not saying it’s right, it’s just a fact.

'she took such an unethical approach to their education'

interesting one this - I actually don't agree in this two tiered system, and think we would all be better off with one state education system BUT every child in UK is entitled to a free education. Even one's who switch schools for whatever reason.
They have 4 kids, all private so money is deffo a factor

I'm not sure of your point here.

I'm not saying private education is necessarily unethical. My suggestion is that it is unethical to buy an advantageous education and then to attempt to conceal this advantage through state sixth form in order to take advantage of fair access protocols.

It's the school they attended for GCSEs that counts.

@Wincher

It does, my dd got dispensation for our postcode and the failing 14-18 school she left to board at 16 (on bursary) she didn't need the consideration in the end because she got the grades

No idea but I'd be surprised if they didn't look at your former years particularly in relation to where you got your GCSEs.
I'd do the same probably if I thought it would benefit my children. I'd imagine the parents will save themselves a tonne of money in fees and the school they have in mind will not be the local inner city failing comprehensive ....it will be a tried and tested 'route 'and the school will be delighted to accept them.

I think she's fundamentally misunderstood how contextual offers are constructed. Simply attending a state school alone is not enough - no-one is getting a contextual offer from attending e.g. Hills Road or The Latymer alone despite the fact that they are state schools because they have high levels of academic progress and student progression to university. Other criteria such. as postcode, FSM, engagement with outreach programmes etc also apply.

Universities are very, very aware that this is a thing and won't be that easily fooled!

What our head told us was that it's more complicated than that- unis use a range of factors in their assessment (such as postcode) so there's no guarantee you'd get an advantage.

It's also a really cruel thing to take a child out of a school they're presumably happy at simply to increase their chance of getting into Oxford or Cambridge, somewhere they might not actually want to go to and which in any event they may well not succeed in winning a place- most people don't even from state schools. Imagine if the last 2 years of your schooling were focused on Oxford to this extent and then not getting in. Awful, fuck your kids up for life.

No idea but these people who obsess over getting their kids into Oxford and go to these outrageous length are just ridiculous.

Indeed folk who obsess for years about certain universities - what will they do if a child want's to do something else?
I am watching a couple of my son's friends being 'forced' to go to a certain university (the course is irrelevant) as are the wishes of the young person being made to do this. The young person wanted a gap year and was due to travel and work abroad with my son, but now has had his dreams crushed by parents who think this is the 'best thing' for him.
So for me the issue is not around private vs state, it is around the rights of a child and young adult and the nastiness of a parent who puts their views above that of their child.

And that's perfectly ok. Kids who are educated privately are just as entitled to state sixth form, even the really good ones. It just won't make any difference Uni wise. But if the local college is better than private then why shouldn't they move?

Just keep out of it. People do this kind of thing all ths time. Not worth arguing about.

Quite @YippieKayakOtherBuckets. It surprises me just how little research people do before they announce a plan to outfox Oxford or Cambridge admissions departments with the classic and well worn “shift to State for A Levels”.

All the information about contextual offers and what Oxbridge is looking for is freely and abundantly available and it’s pretty clear that this trick won’t work. Oxbridge has the chance to interview candidates and looks not just for a level of academic achievement but a deep interest in their subject, a willingness and ability to explain their thinking however “incorrect” the answer, curiosity, “teachability”, flexibility - things that can’t necessarily be guaranteed by a string of A* from any school, state or private.

Then there is the question of whether it’s the right place anyway. It doesn’t suit everyone and are many excellent universities and many excellent courses in universities that are not so revered. I am glad that Oxbridge has modernised and widened its intake, to have traditionally taken such a high proportion of students from such a small pool of schools did no one any favours.

Don't you have to cite where you got your GCSE in the UCAS applications? So the Uni would know.

They can assume that parents suddenly got in a difficult financial position and couldn't pay private any longer or indeed tried to gain an advantage.

I don't really see the point when in the end, more and more of the top employers are opting to select their graduates without looking at which Uni they come from.

In our small city only 1 of the 5 state schools even gets contextual offers and it’s certainly not the school you would voluntarily send a bright child for a levels

'In our small city only 1 of the 5 state schools even gets contextual offers and it’s certainly not the school you would voluntarily send a bright child for a levels'

True but this 6th form in question is one of the best in the UK. Private or State. On 'outcomes' that is - either 'high value' uni admission or employment. Mostly Uni though.
It's non-selective and incredibly diverse, yet still does very well.

The change is fine if everyone is doing it. The loss of continuity can be an issue if the majority of 6th form students are continuing. They may have already started the A level syllabus at the end of the GCSE year. New starters will have to catch up. Not impossible but not all 6th forms are good at supporting this.

Fostering independence, 'good for the soul' etc etc will depend on the individual student.

We have experience of moving DD for 6th form. In her case it was moving from a failing school to a better school. DD settled well enough and made friends but no deep friendships. Her friends now are all from her old school.

I do think they should have a system of state before private but if you live in the town, you have decent GCSE scores in your A level subjects, and you can tell them in your interview that you'll work hard, focus etc - you're in.