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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if AI becomes able to take over 100% of jobs we will live in a utopia

58 replies

StaceM · 18/07/2023 16:58

I know people are worried that AI could take over jobs right now and yes it would be very problematic if it were only taking over some or most jobs as we’d still need money, but if it took all, it’s a different story.

If AI did every job, all humans would be out of work which means no one would be getting paid. However, money is only an incentive to work and if we don’t work, we don’t need money (AI obviously will work for free and do anything we want for free). If money doesn’t exist, then poverty won’t exist. If poverty doesn’t exist, crime will be almost completely eliminated as there’s be no incentive.

If AI did every job, every human on the face of the earth could do what we want, when we want and for free. It would be a utopia. Thoughts?

OP posts:
VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 18/07/2023 18:19

We all need a purpose in life.
we all need fulfilment
we all need to feel we are worthwhile

BertieBotts · 18/07/2023 18:32

I think it's interesting to see people's thoughts on this because they tend to be so extreme and I think you're right, I think it could really happen. Probably not in our lifetimes. But there is definitely scope for a lot more automation, and we have enough food, resources etc for everyone, even when the population tops out at around 10/11 billion like it's supposed to do, so there's really no reason that we couldn't distribute it except that we're all stuck in the ways things have always worked forever.

My main concern is that we are highly likely to go through a very hard period of transition in between, because to get to a point where everyone's needs are provided for is quite far down the path. Whereas the current situation, where we essentially trade labour for resources in a very unequal manner, is likely to continue probably until that point comes about, but inequality will probably get more and more extreme before that point, because there isn't anything to stop that from happening, and human nature is to protect yourself and your own family/people/etc. So no rich person is going to give up their own security to ensure the security of other people that they don't care about, until something, probably a combination of politics and technology, ensures that for everybody, by which time many many millions of people will have suffered and died because they did not have adequate access to basic resources.

Also, I think it's quite likely that the suffering and deaths etc will be very unequally distributed, and at first will affect mostly groups/populations that people in rich countries have very little sympathy for, then people within rich countries that richer people have little sympathy for. It will only be when it creeps up and starts to seriously and gravely affect those who currently have privilege that people in general will take note and be likely to activate towards a solution for.

And this is all if we don't die from nuclear war or whatever other disaster first.

Has anyone else heard of game A and game B thinking? I've been reading about this since listening to a podcast about it the other day. The basic idea is that most of human endeavour has always been based on playing game A which is the idea that everything is essentially zero sum. Someone wins, someone else loses, and that being inevitable and the only possible way of anything, and the only "fair" way is either trying to ensure that people get equal chance to win and lose, or win and lose equally, or yes ok I win, but let's try to minimise the amount that you lose. Game B is more about finding solutions which benefit everyone, and the belief that this is possible, although not everyone agrees about what exactly it means or looks like. Under this theory communism is a Game A mode of being, because it's still under that win/lose framework (lose freedom in exchange for gaining security of resources).

I don't think people will just sit around doing nothing if you give them the resources that they need. But it's hard for us to imagine this because it's like the only way we could think about this is if it happened suddenly overnight. If someone suddenly came to you and said they will continue to pay you your salary from tomorrow but you never have to work again, you probably would say oh yeah great, relaxation, but it's quite unlikely to be a sudden overnight change like that.

catlovingdoctor · 18/07/2023 18:33

Money would still be needed as otherwise what would motivate the companies to develop and maintain the AI / technology? There would have to be universal basic income. The owners of the technology, as mentioned upthread, would call all the shots. Not my idea of utopia.

BertieBotts · 18/07/2023 18:34

I like the idea of doughnut economics too, not endless growth, but once growth gets to a certain point, start funnelling it back in and protect the lower income people from falling into the (doughnut) hole.

Peachespeachesohpeaches · 18/07/2023 18:35

I was meant to have a hoverboard, flying car and a robot butler by the year 2000 thus enabling me to enjoy more leisure time.

I await the utopia I was promised by Blue Peter in the 1990s.

Chypre · 18/07/2023 18:38

Can AI fix world hunger or plastic waste in the world oceans? No, it needs to become silly voice another SoCiAl MEdiA MaRketIng ProFessiOnal. Meh.

Wiccan · 18/07/2023 18:39

Would be a living nightmare . Some people in our society do fuck all as it is . I for one like to work and be productive. I would simply go batshit crazy Can't think of anything worse !

Glowie · 18/07/2023 18:45

While this could absolutely happen at some point, the only realistic outcome is living in pods, grey jumpsuits, and rations etc.

Humanity's problem is that we live in a world of scarce (finite) resources, which means that at some point decisions must be made about who gets what. To do that, you need a method of allocating those resources i.e. currency.

Without this, then you default to allocations based on what is both achievable and 'fair'. This invariably ends with low standards for everyone because everything has to hit the lowest common denominator.

Tiredalwaystired · 18/07/2023 18:46

The way AI is going is messed up. Ideally it would take away the drudge to allow us to enjoy the freedom to be creative.

in reality it’s taking away the creative roles and leaving us with the drudge.

Simon Pegg today said that if we allow AI to do all the creative stuff we can only get mediocre arts at best as it will only be able to be based on what’s gone before.

Nellieinthebarn · 18/07/2023 18:49

Well at the moment they are trying to teach computers to write poetry while children work in sweatshops, and there was a thing on TV last night about the use of AI to generate child porn, so I would be very surprised if utopia for all humans was the outcome of AI.

StaceM · 18/07/2023 19:01

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BertieBotts · 18/07/2023 19:03

I think the current excitement about AI art and other creativity will die down, because as said, it is actually quite limited and bland. It looks really really good, impressive, and unique at first glance, but after a while, you realise that it's all pretty samey. DH has been doing custom bedtime stories for DS2 where he gets to pick the topic and they always seem to have the line "they saw many people walking their dogs and children playing". I am on an online forum for people who play The Sims 2 and people were using a chatbot to generate character backstories and they noticed that every family has a labrador called Max and every mother is a nurse.

I know it will improve from where it is now. But it really seems on a level of those generic crap books that you get from e.g. Paw Patrol. It's not like Julia Donaldson. And if a person is writing the crappy TV-tie-in books or a machine is, who cares?

TheMentionOfYourName · 18/07/2023 19:11

I can't understand why people never expect things to change, especially now with how technology has advanced. We will never stop evolving, the one thing humans do well is adapting. We will adapt to a different way of life.

smilesup · 18/07/2023 19:25

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Now you are taking the piss. Have you not noticed that people emulate porn in real life. Poor girls being made to think anal is normal and should be permitted whenever a man wants it. The same happens with child rape/porn

smilesup · 18/07/2023 19:28

In my ideal world Ai would be programmed to track down all the bastards tha make it and watch and lock them away forever.

illiterato · 18/07/2023 19:30

The problem is that currently, people still think of humans effectively designing the world and AI making it happen for them. Really simple example- people think there will still be hospitals and schools and they will have robot teachers and doctors. But why would there be schools and hospitals? Why is there now a need to educate humans and keep them healthy? They just trash the planet and eat too much. Fuck em, say the AI overlords. The end game of AI is that the machines will be in charge. They will design and operate the world. Their intelligence and ability to solve complex problems will far outstrip even the most intelligent human. And we will be complicit in this because it will become a national arms race - everyone will agree that AI is dangerous but no one will be prepared to give theirs up if someone else has it.

so think carefully before you tell Siri to fuck off 🤣

FoodFann · 18/07/2023 19:35

Who owns the land your food grows on? Do you think they’d give it to you for free?

Azeroin · 18/07/2023 19:41

I don’t just work for money. I work because I enjoy my job, it’s intellectually stimulating, and it’s exciting to work with great, inspiring people.

In this utopia, who is going to create all the original art, the theatre, the TV programmes, the cinema? Who is going to decide what leisure activities we want?

If you’re going to say the robots, I’d question the point of human beings existing at all….. and wonder how long it will take the AI to reach the same conclusion.

user9630721458 · 18/07/2023 19:47

I want to read books, listen to music and look at art created by humans, who know what it is to love, suffer, feel pain etc. I don't want to consume AI generated material which could be programmed with any kind of hidden messages, advertising, political nudges that unscrupulous corporations might pay for. It's terrible what streaming services are doing to writers and actors, and really sad to see human creativity being stolen and usurped.

PurpleButterflyWings · 18/07/2023 19:49

NO. It's already starting to fail 😆

Saw on the news tonight, that you only have to put a black sticker on a sign (say a no entry sign) and the AI thing sees it as a 30mph peed limit sign.

Not as smart as some people are trying to make out.

AI will NEVER take over humans ... NEVER.

ReadRum · 18/07/2023 20:01

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It already exists and is leading to more real life abuse of children, not less. See reports in today’s newspapers.
Also, there is no international agreement yet on preventing AI being connected to lethal weapons. Without that the future looks a little different.

Thelnebriati · 18/07/2023 20:04

'utopia' is where men sit around wanking off to AI generated porn?

Redlarge · 18/07/2023 20:06

Greed and hate will still exist.

Miajk · 18/07/2023 20:08

plasticwallet · 18/07/2023 17:22

No, the people who own all the robots and tech will be in utopia, you will be living in the gated slums.

this

Yep. With every tech revolution, the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

illiterato · 18/07/2023 20:10

PurpleButterflyWings · 18/07/2023 19:49

NO. It's already starting to fail 😆

Saw on the news tonight, that you only have to put a black sticker on a sign (say a no entry sign) and the AI thing sees it as a 30mph peed limit sign.

Not as smart as some people are trying to make out.

AI will NEVER take over humans ... NEVER.

Why would there need to be a stop sign? Only humans need those. AI would just know where all the other cars are and if it needs to stop or not.