What’s going on with working hours these days?

[CateringPanic]

I work in the public sector. My working hours are broadly 9-5 although I can flex this if I want to eg. 8-4, with 30 minutes for lunch. Either way it’s 37.5 hours a week which I thought was standard for full time work. I’m reasonably senior so obviously I might sometimes choose to work late to get stuff done but these are my contracted hours.

BILs girlfriend is young, early 20s and in her second job out of uni (was only in first for 6m). Her old job was 9-6 and her current one is 8-5. She thinks this is normal - I think her employers are taking the piss.

She is salaried, not hourly paid, and these are low skilled, low stress administration jobs so no real need to work long hours at all.

AIBU to think this is more than full time work and she shouldn’t have to be working an extra 5 hours a week for crap money or am I just out of touch with how things are out there?

@CateringPanic you said they are admin roles - so that’s normal for when I was working in the city as a PA, I was contracted 9-6 in most jobs, but expected to be in for 8:15/8:30am to cover any “meet and greet” for early meetings, set up meeting rooms, have paperwork printed out for presentations etc. the other end was to allow having stuff sorted for later meetings (usually happening with New York based people).

however in places like this, taking a 1.5 hour lunch break to go to the gym or shopping etc was perfectly acceptable.

DS is back at his gap year job over summer and their hours are eye watering - he does landscape gardening for £10.50 an hour and the core hours are 7am until 4pm and they are expected to attend the yard ten minutes early to load vans (unpaid). He has recently had jobs further away so has had 5am and 6am starts.

The boss is so rude to them - didn't even provide water in the 39 degree heat last year and moans about them stopping for food (they do such a physical job they need to eat breakfast, snacks and lunch). I don't know why they all put up with the working conditions but they do.

My contract is 37 hours but it’s fully flexible between 7am and 8pm so there’s no actual set hours or lunch breaks. Public sector.

I tend to work 7am - 3pm with a half hour lunch. A few times a week I work til 4pm and claim the flexi so I can have day off every few weeks without using any annual leave.

Private sector hours seem to be longer and slightly flexible but not quite as flexible. I agreed with you that there’s no benefit to working longer hours just for the sake of it, but it does seem to be the way things are going.

My working hours are one of the perks of my job that I treasure the most.

I’ve worked a variety of office jobs, all between 35 and 40 hours per week. I would consider 40 hours the top end of a standard office hours week.

My DS started an office based job last year - public sector. Hours are 8.45 - 5.00 Mon to Thurs and 8.45 - 4.00 on a Friday.
DH also office based job - 9-5 although he does work outside of those hours at times but is supposed to take TOIL.

I’m 28. I’ve turned down all job offers that expect more than 9-5 with for standard hours (I don’t mind the odd bit of unpaid overtime during busy periods). That includes a few with 9-6 hours, one 8-6 and one which would be mostly 9-6 with 7-5 one day a week. I value having a life too much! I work in a well-paid public sector role, 35 hours. The roles I turned down were all private sector. They just don’t pay enough more to make it worth the loss of my free time.

I was doing 9-18:00 mon-friday
Partner is contracted to do 7:30-17:30 mon-fri, usually ends up having to do a 7 start everyday though plus every other saturday. Add in travel and he is out the house from 6:30 til 18:00

9-5 is super rare these days, especially in the private sector. My official hours are 9.30-6pm with an hours lunch, on an annual salary. In fact I can only think of one job that was ever 9-5 and they changed the contracts around 10 year ago to add on half an hour.
The difference is (in my industry anyway) as we are very work based output. They don't mind what hours I work over what days as long as I am available for meetings where needed and pick my phone up between core hours of 11-4pm. I have peaks and troughs, some days I will arrive at the office for 11 and leave at 4, some times its busy and I will work until 7ish.

Word for word this exact thread was posted 2 months ago. Same working hours and everything.

They seem to be normal hours to me.

I spent 20 years working in banking and 50 hour or more weeks were not unusual by the time I left. Overtime payments had been scrapped in the early 90's.

Our contracted hours were 9-5 but arriving for work after 8:30 would raise eyebrows as would leaving before 6. Working through lunch was also the norm.

When the EU working time directive forms were introduced we were simply told by our manager to lie! If you submitted a form with the actual hours you had worked that week you would be asked to fill a new one and reduce the hours.

40 hrs a week is pretty normal. That's been my boyfriends typical hours for 20+ years, it's not a new thing.

I'm not saying it's nice to have to work that, but it's very very normal.

Private sector, 40 hours contracted is normal to me: 9.00 to 5.30 with 30 minute lunch. Reality is more like 8.00 to 6.30 or longer. In theory we are supposed to get a day off every other week to compensate. We are expected to be available on that day if there is a problem to deal with.

(I am actually on holiday today which is easier to defend)

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼everyone should be doing this.

Private sector hours are generally longer, it's not unusual to see a 40 hour week. It's a sneaky way of employers getting more for paying less.

My contracted hours are 9-5 but I am salaried and it goes with the territory that 35 hours will be the minimum you do. However it is extremely flexible and I have control over my own time, as long as the work gets done. If I have a tough week I can follow it up - when I get a chance - with taking some time back as long as I am still contactable for emergencies. No OT payments and I am opted out of the WTD.

I have also worked 9-5.30 in the same sector. In my retail days 40 hours was the norm and shifts would be 9-6, with the store opening at 9.30 and closing at 5.30 so that there was time for prep and clean-up at either end.

It’s difficult because often when you’re young and have no dependents you’re building a career and do the hours to get on. Now I’m much more bullish about doing my hours unless the shit is really hitting the fan or it’s really needed.

I would say though that my example is appreciated by the people under me. One of my peers is doing ridiculous hours and burning out when she doesn’t need to. Her team is imploding with the stress and expectation and it’s all going a bit wrong.

I think there's a massive difference between extra work expected as 'standard', and people doing more to get on.
Of course it depends on the profession but in mine there's no escaping the hands-on work needed to build experience (and your market value!)
As a result those who do more of the right sort of work (not reporting or sitting in pointless meetings) can progress much faster with large salary increases.

I always say as a team the workload should be 'set' 9-5 but you can't stop people from going the extra mile if they want to. Of course, this makes it difficult for people like PT workers or with dependents but that is the nature of our profession.

The payoff is once you have all the foundational knowledge it's easy to draw on and you can sort of coast. Do the work in half the time of a junior :)

Salaries are for the role. In many professional jobs that means "however long it takes". There are clauses in many contracts stating "reasonable overtime as required" (and bo extra pay for it!). "Reasonable" is very hard to challenge. For example, in my early career our standard hours per contract were 37: 9-5:30 with a one hour lunch. But the reality was that we worked 90-100 hours in busy periods and maybe 50-60 in the quietest part of the year. It's not healthy but there's not much you can do about it except research employers thoroughly and know what you are getting into and what the expectations will be.

Public sector so 37 hours contracted but I don't know many people who have fixed hours tbh. Surely you work til the work is done? For some roles for me that's been 55 hour weeks as standard and now I tend to do 40 to 45 depending on what the demands are. In our dept we're really feeling the squeeze of having more work but fewer people. I don't teach or do time specific work so I can be relatively flexible with start and finish times which is a bonus.

I don't think that the standard 9-5 exists if you work for larger, global employers. For me, a good day is 8:30 to 6:30; if I start later than that, then I miss the opportunity to collaborate with team members in APAC; if I finish early, I don't have enough overlap with the US West Coast, where lots of colleagues are located. The expectation is that I work whatever hours are needed to get the job done. Nobody would complain if I took two hour lunch breaks to make up for it, but it's pretty impossible to get the job done in under 45-50 hours a week. Even if you're super efficient.

@AvanGelist I think this bit is very true:

“The payoff is once you have all the foundational knowledge it's easy to draw on and you can sort of coast. Do the work in half the time of a junior :)

I know I can knock something out that is good quality I’m not very much time because of my experience which does enable me to be a bit more protective of my time. Also the more senior I’ve got, the less actual work I do.

I have always worked in the private sector and I have to say that sounds pretty normal tbh. You may be right in theory that they aren't work-friendly hours but I think the idea that employers are "taking the piss" is a bit unrealistic in this day and age. That's a very normal working day for white collar jobs.

The reality is many businesses in this environment need people working long hours to keep the lights on.

I theoretically work 9 to 6 but in practice my hours can fluctuate vastly either above or sometimes below this: sometimes I work 6am to 8.30am then log off until 10.30am and work until 4pm. Sometimes I start at 9am and log off at 4pm but back on again at 6.30pm.

It's long hours but mostly from home and I can do it in my own time. I'm trusted not to have to be at work during all contracted hours: I sometimes have to work much longer hours than most people and the trade off is that they don't nickle and dime me about when I'm working.

I'd much rather have longer hours but with flexibility as to when and where they are undertaken that a really rigid, clock-watching undertaking to stick to exactly 8 hours and have to be at a desk.

Ive just been offered a job 8.30-5.30.
I've turned it down. There would be zero need for me to be there at 8.30, (it's a marketing job, not a call centre with long hours or retail etc) and it would make it impossible with school runs to do, whereas 9 would be fine-so they've done themselves out of a good candidate there (if I say so myself 😂)

I think you need to give this employer the benefit of the doubt that they know what hours work best for their business. Afterall they could offer less hours and pay you less. Perhaps the 8.30 start is for admin?

I asked them why there was a new to start at 8.30 and they just said 'that's how it's always been' so....
It's managing marketing for older peoples retirement villages. On site office but it doesn't even open to the public until 10. No idea what I'd even do for the preceding hour and half