Impact of SUVs in a crash

[MassiveCars]

Recently there was a terrible accident involving a 2 ton car
What stood out was the mention of the weight of the vehicle
So I did a couple of calcs
An SUV of 1972kg doing 30mph has the same Kinetic Energy of a small car of 1221kg doing 38mph
A larger SUV of 2598kg has the same Kinetic Energy of a small car of 1221kg doing 44mph
All these large SUVs doing 30mph create the same damage as a smaller car doing 38mph to 44mph
There must be enough maths & physics teachers on here to check this out
I did think of mentioning the small car and the big car types ?

But large SUVs (=large weight) are a much more serious danger to kids at 30mph than your small cars at 30mph

There is great emphasis on 30mph, perhaps we should enforce slower speeds for heavier vehicles if safety is the objective

Where do you propose large families/those with disabilities shove the extra people or equipment?

There are lots of reasons people may need larger cars.

🤣

The Risky Shift is long established phenomenon but I've not seen any research that links safer brakes and other recent car safety developments to an increase in accidents.

Most of the research in this space relates to seat belt legislation where the increase in risk taking was outweighed by the overall reduction in accidents due to the legislation.

Most modern cars have the same safety features in terms of brakes and steering and cage protection as cars badged as SUVs. I've not seen any evidence that cars badged as SUVs are disproportionately involved in injury and accidents by comparison with other cars.

You can see an impact of car weight and speed on injuries but that is true of all heavier cars, not just those with SUV marketing campaigns, some of which are a lot smaller and lighter than eg a family estate car or EV

I think most in town roads that are currently 30 ought to be 20, to account for this exact thing. I know people will still speed, of course, but if the base line is 20, they might do 28 instead of 38. I will be forever grateful that the car that hit my son was a little fiesta being driven within the speed limit. It was his fault entirely, (old enough to be out alone and should have known better but he's a kid, they make mistakes and he ran out behind a parked car not taking account of a side road where the car came from that was hidden from his view). Being "right" or "wrong" though doesn't make someone any less dead. Had he been hit by a high up SUV travelling at 32, he'd be dead. The reality is that there ARE vulnerable road users and sharing such small spaces is immensely, inherently dangerous. There are plenty of options for having a car that is fast enough for a motorway without being a massive tank like SUV and if you can afford one of those, you can also afford a small runabout suitable for town driving. But if we just have "I'm alright, safest in this and screw everyone else" approach, then there's not much to be done.

Let's ignore the people who die In ordinary road accidents , the cyclists and pedestrians

Let's ignore the asthma and dementia deaths being increasingly understood a result of car pollution

Let's ignore those dying this week as Europe bakes

Why just ban SUV? The absolute risk from owning and driving cars or any type is horrific ?

Perhaps we should ban all cars?

Disclaimer - I drive ( don't live with londons public transport ) but I would rather a world where it wasn't so necessary

But what is an SUV? When my kids where small the vehicle everyone liked to demonise on discussions was the MPV, despite most of them being externally no bigger than a standard family estate car. Both are vehicles largely used by women trying to juggle kids, schedules and work.

There is no agreed definition of an SUV, its largely become a meaningless category dreamed up largely by marketing. If you want to categorise by something objective such as weight or external measurements then kiss goodbye to EVs and standard family estate and other large family cars as well.

I agree with you on EVs and the environment - the greenest car is still one that you keep until it drops, not the latest and greatest EV or hybrid. Its a lot greener to wait on the EV or hybrid until you absolutely have to change a car.

Er, I think the topic is the damage they do to the things and people they hit?

There is no need for these grotesque cars

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Nevertheless, I bought one because my small hatchback kept getting stuck and damaged when I used it off tarmac roads.

That's the way many people in our society feel, I'm afraid. Fk you, Jack, I'm all right.

That's why I have front and rear dash cams on my car along with a yellow warning sign they're in operation.

A bad driver in ANY vehicle behaves themselves behind me once they see it which means I then have control over how much space I have in front.

SUV, hatchback, estates, small vans, large vans - had awful drivers in all types!

No one on this thread knows why people own SUVs or larger vehicles - there are often perfectly valid reasons.

I drive a van but I am not a tradesperson nor do I need a van for business reasons.

Should I have to justify why I want a van to be able to own it for personal use?

I am currently looking for a second hand car. To get a mid size family car - so one that holds 5 people and a decent amount of crap in the boot - it's virtually impossible to get one that isn't an SUV (Estate style don't suit as due to a minor disability the seating position just doesn't work for). We currently have a small MPV style which is perfect, but to get similar are so rare they're hideously over priced. I've been really appalled at quite how large some of the cars are. I live in London and there just is no need for massive SUV style cars. Most wouldn't cope with off road anyway!

The higher driving position of an SUV offers better visibility than that available to the driver of a car much lower to the ground and they can generally spot hazards way further ahead. I tend to find those who moan most about big vehicles are the worst drivers and have absolutely no knowledge of cars or any interest in them and no I don’t drive an SUV before you jump to that conclusion.

Even minis aren't small any more. See one parked next to the new Discovery and there's not much in it. Most people, most of the time don't need big cars.

I've also noticed how much noisier big cars are on the road that passes my house.

The best thing to manage the risk is to not hit any pedestrians with your car. Most drivers manage not to.

I'm not saying in your particular case, but yes, when your choice to drive a vehicle negatively impacts on the rest of the community, then yes, you should need to justify it, or pay extra.

So large 4x4s in towns, heavy vehicles (including electric) that cause a disproportionate amount of road wear and tear, modern cars that are too large to fit in a standard parking space, should all pay extra and be subject to restrictions.

Electric cars may be marginally better for the environment (although as a PP said, the greenest car is the one you use until it drops), but they absolutely contribute to congestion - and as they are cheaper to run than petrol cars, there is no disincentive to minimise car journeys.

Not to mention that cars are generally designed for “reference man” who is 70kg and 170cm.

A lot of women drive SUVs especially if they’re petite as they quite literally can’t see out the window and around them without the additional height. Personally I’d rather they were able to see than the alternative.

I have a friend who quite literally can’t rest her heel on the floor when braking in her Golf as she has smaller than average female feet. She has to stomp down to stop. She says it’s the same in all cars. Extrapolate that across all the various geometry issues women have when using equipment designed for men and you can see why people go for the car they feel most safe in.

Is one driver (no pun intended!) of bigger cars bigger car seats, which are used for longer?

Friends who have three children have found getting a five seater car that takes three child seats at a reasonable price impossible. They've now got a seven seater, despite not really wanting one.

Though FWIW, I would like to see everyone driving golf buggies/simple cheap electric vehicles/bikes/scooters around populated areas/for shorter journeys with a speed limit of 20mph and only using actual cars for longer journeys. But the car industry would never allow it.

No need for them at all in the north London borough I live. Alexandra Palace is our most rugged terrain.

I hate hearing how safe they are - yes for you. Not for anyone you hit. I cannot wait for the expanded ULEZ to come in to play so we have fewer of these.

This is why schools have a 20mph zone and beware, if you park on the zigzags, I’ll happily report you all day long.

Not to mention that cars are generally designed for “reference man” who is 70kg and 170cm.

About like me then, as a woman.

If the average man is 11st there are an awful lot of men kidding themselves.

We've just gone for a Tiguan, I have to sit in the back for various reasons and none of the estate cars gave me enough leg room with enough boot space. It isn't a 4x4 but will be quite a change as we've only ever had tiny cars before, but it is what we need. I'm sorry you think we are now the enemy. I'm more bothered about people using their phones to text while driving, which I still see regularly.

It's the driver that spots things further up the road. I did an IAM course and none of the instructors drove SUV's but are better drivers than most of us.

They don't drive them because they are worse in every measurable way, compared to regular cars.

This is my size too. Perfect then, I don’t need to buy a monster truck after all!

(no one does btw)

There is absolutely no need for most people to have SUVs especially in cities. SUVs are more dangerous, their height also means they are more likely to hit a person on their torso where their organs are than their legs. They use more fuel, obstruct clear vision on the road and take up parking space room.