To be disappointed by my community of parent friends and peers

[FlyBirdieFly]

Hi everyone,

I just wondered what people's perspectives are on this.

We have a 6 year old girl and during our time as parents, we have struggled to build a community in the way I expected we would. I thought parenthood would bring new supportive friendships where mutual help / support would come naturally. However I've just not found that. Our DD rarely gets invited to friends' houses, yet we have her friends over a lot - one of them in particular we have over every week but dd has only been invited there a couple of times. This has always been the pattern - we invite and host folk to ours but so rarely get invited to others' for similar - we do a mixture of having DC and a parent / parents round or just have DC round on their own. I think we're pretty nice people and DD is generally very kind and well behaved, (with the odd normal off day on occasion). We get asked fairly regularly to help out with friends' children etc which we do almost every time were asked.
We've had a really challenging year as a family - we lost dp's dad last year and a baby at late gestation earlier this year and I've been really shocked at the almost total lack of support from our community of pals.
We live in London and I wonder if people are just so busy and consumed by the franticness of their pace of life they don't have space to form proper mutually supportive communities. Or, am I just naive and that's just the way it is everywhere?
I'd be interested to know other people's experiences on building communities with other families and if anyone has any tips for me. Or if I should just get on with it and that's just the way life is.

Thanks for reading x

What are their working patterns like? We’re in London and most people we know will struggle with play dates because of work commitments and children in wraparound care until 6pm or later. There’s then a huge amount of stuff and family time to cram into the weekend. Sorry you are having this experience , and for your losses, I think it’s possibly pretty common in London (and maybe elsewhere too). Personally my close friends and support network are people I have known for a very long time and I’m not expecting to make more of those type of friends through my daughter.

If there are any babyloss groups locally or online you may be able to get the support you need from there; it is really only people who have been through the same thing that can get it

And don’t give up on the friendship thing, how your daughter is 6 maybe it’s more about finding friends YOU click with, either through school gates but interests too - tennis club/yoga studio or such like

Unfortunately that is how I think a lot of people are these days . Definitely easier when my kids were growing up ,people were not staring at phones,chatted more and relied more on friendships to stay sane with little people.Also from reading on MN parents were less competitive and less uptight generally!
OP have you considered moving to a village where there are likely to be more gatherings,smaller village schools etc .

The comments 'siding' with the deleted post/ poster - still WTF

It's not relevant all to this discussion.

Equivalent to some replying to a post about double glazing with a comment along the lines of "it's too expensive to keep my horse atm"

Utterly separate issues. I've got every sympathy with the horse issue but it's not relevant to double glazing.

YANBU OP, I think the replies here have been a bit harsh. DH and I live somewhere we don't have any family around and we moved here just before having our first so had to build up a community from scratch.

We have the most incredible community - just thinking of this past week we've been able to do childcare for 3 sets of friends who have both parents working (I only work term time, we are on holidays here), have dog sat for friends away on holiday, and I've had two separate friends do me similar favours for different reasons.

I don't think this is because we are anything special, but I do think we live in a very friendly place. I'm shocked about the lack of support for your bereavement, anytime anyone in my extended group of acquaintances even has had a bereavement or a partner in hospital or similar we've done meals and childcare and so on. That is the norm here. I've got a few friends in London who are Mums and none of them seem to have quite the same supportive community that I have.

On the flip side I barely ever see my Uni friends because we live so far away from them and have no friends left from school really.

I had that, friends and neighbours who could do emergency childcare, regular childcare swaps, support when illness or bereavement hit.
I'm in a large village though and my oldest is 25. My friends were all SAHMs or worked part time in the early years and I'm not in London, I moved back to Scotland when I was pregnant with DS1
We still support each other.

Yes, London is very different

I do think being in London does have something to do with it - I have slightly older DC (late primary and older secondary) and live in an area that is often feted for having a great sense of community - and it does. I will always see someone I know when I pop to the local shops, or go to any local event to say hello to and pass the time of day.

But I don't actually have that many close, supportive friendships - partly because the close friendships I formed when my children were preschool age have mostly fallen away (a LOT of people I know have moved out of London), and partly because I am finding it harder to form those sort of friendships the older I get - partly to do with getting older as I just don't have the time to devote to them!

But people are also busy - we've gone from being in the office, to mostly working from home now and the current set up of that, plus clubs, makes it difficult for us to have more than one playdate a week, if that. I'm very conscious about hosting reciprocal playdates, but I couldn't be dealing with having your DD over once a week if you hosted mine - I just don't have the hours in the day. And, with the best will in the world, some DC are easier to host than others.

Part of me would love to have the sort of set up where my kids are in and out of each others houses, and people are dropping by all the time. But, when I think about it more closely, I don't think I would really like that at all and would find it quite hard to be 'on' all the time.

Which is what we do, but as you say its a minimal cost, when you are on the bare bones of your arse, even a minimal cost is still more than you can afford.

Yes, this. I don't think I've been the best at always reciprocating play dates after school when mine were in primary, but what with working PT and after school activities and the DC going to their dad's some nights I found it really hard to find a day that would work. I always MEANT to invite children back.

In terms of those who would support - those are my friends, not parents of other children in the same class. There are only now 2 or 3 parents I would ask for practical support from the primary school days and even then it wouldn't be people I would lean on emotionally. Those are rhe people who have came into my life mostly separate from the DC (one is an antenatal friend so we met because we were having children but stayed friends regardless of whether the kids got on).

I totally get this OP.

i think you should expect people to reciprocate with play dates.

I also disagree with PPs saying that people already have support networks- that’s not a thing in London. I have lots of pre- kid friends dotted around London, but unless they are living around the corner, it’s not feasible to get them to do school pick ups.

in London, you really rely on this kind of network. My childcare plans next week revolve around my son hanging out with school friends after school ( and I reciprocate!)

I’d also say that it doesn’t come easy OP and lots of people are just wrapped up in their own lives. It’s taken me most of primary to build up that kind of network.

Id also say that it’s a tiny circle of friends who I actually rely on for mutual support ( picking up kids/ play dates etc) as so many are flaky.

have patience OP- you’ll find some kindred spirits!

and also - don’t be shy about calling in these favours. Why not ask if one of these parents could take your kid for an hour while you do X? Many people happy to help but wouldn’t think to offer if they don’t know you are stuck.

We have two DD now at secondary. I also thought I'd make friends with other parents when we had kids, but it never happened. We both work, so didn't do school drop off and pick ups more than once a week (the childminder doing the other days). Parents in the playground we nice but not interested in making new friends, and most of them already knew each other or were stay at home parents who could socialise in the daytime while I was at work. Since the kids were at school I've done some volunteering and sports and that's where I've made friends instead, maybe because the people I've met there have more in common with me.

I would say that it wasn’t usual in my experience for play dates to be one sided. For every play date I did, there was one reciprocated.

Support is something else though-I didn’t ever rely on school friend mums for that. My existing friends and family were there for me, but that had nothing to do with me being a parent.

I thought parenthood would bring new supportive friendships where mutual help / support would come naturally

Play dates aside, what did you envisage this help/support looking like?

I understand how you feel. I've always hosted playdates, but they're never reciprocated. It makes me sad. I care for my disabled father, so could do with the odd reciprocation. I honestly believe people feel too busy, working full time in the week. They're busy at the weekends cleaning, grocery shopping and spending quality time with their family. They don't want to think of hosting other kids. One girl ran up to me after school this past week, and asked when she can come over again. I used to say okay will arrange with your mum. But I just felt fed up, the child is nice but hard work. I've had her for a recent sleepover. She's had loads of playdates, my child's never even been in their house. So I just said, I don't know. How about we do something else instead. She replied that my child wouldn't like it at their house. Which I found strange, must be what her mum's told her to say. I love seeing my child happy with friends, but it feels unfair. I'm considering not having playdates for the time being.

She replied that my child wouldn't like it at their house.

That would press a button for me and I’d reply, ‘I bet she’d love it-she’s bored of my house. Let me know when you are free for her to visit!’

@Shinyandnew1 · Today 11:25

"She replied that my child wouldn't like it at their house.

That would press a button for me and I’d reply, ‘I bet she’d love it-she’s bored of my house. Let me know when you are free for her to visit!’"

That's a great reply! I'm going to say that next time! Thanks.

Part of me would love to have the sort of set up where my kids are in and out of each others houses, and people are dropping by all the time. But, when I think about it more closely, I don't think I would really like that at all and would find it quite hard to be 'on' all the time.
I think this comment is quite telling of the current generation of parents of young children. See, we had that when mine were small- I had kids over all the time, my kids were at someone else's house at least 2/3 times a week. Neighbours would knock at the door randomly, but I never felt a need to be "on", I just thought, take me as you find me.
Maybe people feel like they have to present a perfect image more now.

I think there are a few things going on.

A community is a great thing, in som many ways. We know it's one of the greatest protections against things like depression, for example, far more than the other bs programs and such that they try and implement in the health and education system.

But it's actually really hard to build a community. It's needs to be something that almost occurs naturally, people you see regularly, people you get to know over many years, a relatively stable network of people where you have some newcomers that can be integrated into that network. Everything in the way the modern economy operates work against communities like this forming. As does our culture which tends to value change and moving around.

Similarly, therer has been a lot of research on the actual physical ways communities form. If people have to always make an appointment, or drive or travel more than about 20 minutes when they do, mostly they won't do that. Other things get in the way. Physical proximity is far more important than most people realize. You can meet up for coffee when you have a spare hour, or maybe you happen to run into each other at the shop and grab a coffee. For example. People you see daily or several times a week for years at work, or the shop, or church.

This is why when kids played out and mainly went to local schools it was so much easier for them to build friendships. They didn't really need to be managed by parents.

The other related issue is hosting at home. For many people, hosting people at home is difficult. They don't have space, or they have issues at home that make it uncomfortable, it's too much an invasion of private space. What really helps is public spaces for people to meet, but there aren't always a lot of these available, or they are expensive.

In the end, our lives are set up in many cases so that developing these kinds of bonds is difficult. A friendship doesn't ever get off the ground.

I was thinking about this too.

I certainly feel the pressure to be on.

But when I think back to my own up-bringing, in the 70s and 80s, I don't think the parents in the neighbourhood felt that at all. We were in and out of all the houses on the street with kids - so about 15 homes. The mum (and dads) did almost nothing to entertain us, we were in and out on our own time, played in the bedroom or most of those house had what they called a "rec room" in the basement (lots of shag carpet, toys, maybe a tv,) we largely got our own snacks, (if allowed, often it wasn't etc.) Houses were generally clean but by no means magazine worthy. And if the mum became annoyed with us, she'd send us out, and we'd play outside or in another kid's house. Generally the mums didn't know specifically where we were - this was from about school age on.

So actually I think this made their lives easier rather than representing more work.

I live in London, I have a 5 and 10 yr old and have certainly benefited from that local community that you talk of. Maybe I have been very lucky. I have met a lot of parents who I have clicked with. I have wonderful neighbours with similar aged children and our gardens are often an open house for them all.

However I would say it was easier when my eldest was younger, now we have to make more effort. I think a lot more parents are working more. When my daughter was in reception so 2017 there were a lot if SAHPs or part time working parents, now with my 5 yr old pretty much the majority or parents are working full time or close to, so reciprocating play dates becomes much harder. I know I have had to increase my hours as the cost ot living forced me to, I think especially in London, but not exclusively, that is very common now and will impact that community you talk of.

Same happened for us - I didn't manage to make a single Mum friend through DD - I did all the right things - playdates, birthday parties, joined PTA, smiled friendly etc. People weren't rude to me, just didn't gel with any groups and it didn't happen. People to pass the time with at the school gate but never had a glass of wine them.

By the time we had DS the demographic at the school changed a little and I found the best group of friends through the infant school PTA - we're all still friends even though the kids are long gone from the school. But with me finding my friends, DS did too - his best friend for life came from my Mum friends rather than me making friends with his friend's parents.

We had quite a few famillies we were good friends with when the DC were little but that was when we expressly invited parents round for drinks etc. when I got divorced quite a lot of that went away.

I think invariably if the dynamic isn't a bit of back and forth with playdates, then these are never going to be people who will be involved closely with you.

I have known parents that just never did playdates as they weren't interested in them.

I suited myself and had their child over as it suited me and didn't expect anything in return.

Thankfully this was certainly not the case with any of their close circle over the years.

If people are asking you to have their children, are you asking them to have yours? It’s fine to do so if they ask you.

I found London parents very ready to be friends and be friendly, to invest in their children’s friendships and be willing to smile and have a chat wi to me. However, I never needed to lean heavily on them. I think you are feeling in need of friendship and support and honestly it’s more a reflection of the difficult year you’ve had than others being a poor support.