I don’t know what to say to friend about IVF

[Bournevilla]

I have a friend I’ve known for three years now. She’s increasingly talking about wanting to have a baby (she’s almost 40), how she’d find it fulfilling and how much she’d regret not having one. She’s a really interesting, very intelligent and well-read person and we have a lot of similar interests. We did see each other weekly but I’ve moved away and now we text most days but only see each other very irregularly. She’s a thoughtful, kind and loyal person but can also be a bit over-assertive which puts people off (DH and some friends I’ve introduced her to have all found her a bit arrogant or rude).

Whilst I‘ve always been supportive of her and her plans to date and to have a baby, she’s never had a relationship, has a great career but works three days a week due to finding full-time too stressful, is obese (BMI is about 38), has never spent time with children before and has a very small social circle. Realistically it’d need to be via IVF with donor sperm after significant, quick weight loss, then raising the baby alone, and I just don’t know if she’s physically or mentally prepared for it.

All our conversations seem to come back to IVF / babies nowadays and I just don’t know what to say. I want to support her but in the time I’ve known her she hasn’t got past the first date with anyone, lost any weight or started any fertility investigations so on some level it’s like she’s deliberately letting time run out?

You don’t need to say anything I don’t think. Just acknowledge her thoughts and be noncommittal. If she has an appointment about proceeding with IVF they’ll cover weight requirements and other related stuff. Maybe she’s just indulging a fantasy rather than really means she’ll do it. Especially if she’s been talking about it for a while.

Treat it like anything someone’s talking about a lot. I had a colleague who was definitely going to move house. She’d get hers valued, house hunt like mad, send me links to properties, do mood boards of design ideas. Once I realised it wasn’t really going to happen and was just escapism I limited my responses to bland “hmm, lovely” where I could and stopped being too invested.

This might be something similar, your friend quite likes the idea but that’s all it’ll stay.

I'd leave it to the medical professionals. If she's paying for private IVF you would hope they would explain her chances of success given her age and weight before letting her spend thousands on it.

Don't say anything. You said she's smart and interesting - do you really think she doesn't know she's obese? That she will likely be a single parent if she does have a child?
She doesn't need you to tell her these things. Just support her where you can, and change the subject if you don't want to talk about it anymore.

We both used to benefit from our friendship because we liked having someone to talk to about ‘big stuff’ like politics and art. We’ve had endless in-depth debates about very interesting topics. I really appreciate her bluntness and passion for her beliefs.

Now, I’m finding it tricky because she wants to talk about styles of baby shoes or controlled crying methods in depth but without any consideration to the steps that need to be taken to get there. I have several friends going through IVF and have just been referred myself so I know how tough a ride it can be.

I get you OP, it’s ultimately boring and frustrating when someone bangs on about just one thing, and their attitude to it is , well , unrealistic .

Friendship is a two way street. What are you getting out of this one?

She sounds deluded. She hasn’t even had any treatment and she’s already talking about baby shoes and controlled crying.

Thank you, this is insightful and I have been trying to be non-committal and change the subject but she seems increasingly focused. Escapism is exactly what it is, I think. But I’m worried for her mental health too. It’s like it’s become a fixation and something she definitely thinks will happen in due course, but the longer she procrastinates on it, the faster time will run out.

I have several friends going through IVF and have just been referred myself so I know how tough a ride it can be.

Have you mentioned this to her? Not in a "you shouldn't do it" way but in a "have you looked into the process, I've heard it's tough" way. I don't see any harm in that.

I'd be less worried about what you have to say when you chat and more worried about her mental state. In depth chats about shoes and controlled crying when she hasnt even begun the process is a little concerning tbh. Do you have any mutual friends you could chat to about this who are also aware of this situation?

Sounds like she might be autistic. This would account for her intellect, her bluntness, and her issues with relationships. It would also account for her having this current obsession which she’s infodumping on you (infodumping is a common autistic trait).

Now, maybe she will pursue this, maybe she won’t. Maybe it’s just a fantasy she’s indulging but instead of keeping it to her own daydreams, she’s using you as an outlet.

I can see why you’re a bit bewildered and fed up with it.

That’s a good question. We definitely got on better when we lived closer so we could meet up and do something rather than just text.

I feel stuck because it’d feel mean to fade her out because I do really like her and she doesn’t have many people to talk to, but at the same time she doesn’t take criticism well and if I told her I don’t see the point discussing all this when she’s not even speaking to fertility clinics, I think she’d be really upset.

"So are you starting your IVF then?"

Unfortunately we don’t have any mutual friends. We used to, but the third friend met some other people and wanted to do group activities which my friend in question wasn’t interested in. I’ve introduced some of my friends before but she was very serious (as an example, someone was lightheartedly moaning about an operation waiting list and got a fairly long and stern lecture about appreciating the NHS - which is fair I suppose but not really appropriate for a first meeting) and they prefer her in small doses.

She’s definitely better one on one than in a group. I do worry for her mental health. I don’t know about autism but I know she’s got a therapist and I think she holds some trauma from bullying growing up.

A close family member has autism and latches onto unrealistic ideas like this and talks about them ENDLESSLY as though they are very much going to happen in the immediate future, but of course they won't. I used to get sucked in, now I head off the conversation very firmly. Somehow they aren't offended by this in the slightest (possibly because it boils down to to something no more "real" than discussing the plot of a particularly engrossing book).

Early in this process I was fully sucked in and arranged appointments to support this ambition, only to get a very sad phone call from the location of this appointment, where this grand plan was supposed to happen, saying they didn't want to go through with it now, and realised it was completely unrealistic. I felt like a bit of a bitch for letting it go that far, but it needed to happen for them to drop it (and to stop strongly recommending bloody everybody to follow this same ambition whether they wanted to or not!!!).

I tell you this because your friend's ambition sounds similar. The best you can do, if you want to continue the relationship - and you don't have to! - is head her off every single time. If she pushes it, ask out straight "are you actually planning to have IVF in the next 12 months? do you want my practical support in getting your health to where it needs to be before you will be allowed to start it? No? Well, let's talk about it closer to the time then. Did you see that incredible article about XYZ on the ABC last week?" and don't be sucked into airy fairy conversations about a future that will probably not come to pass. Unless you want to be.

You don’t have to say anything. I agree with @AnneLovesGilbert.

YANBU it sounds like a train wreck situation.

But let's face it, she's unlikely to go through with it. The specialists will tell her about the impact of her weight. And the cost is expensive. Then there's the physical pain and disruption of IVF.

I suspect she's just feeling unsure about it all and wants to sound board.

Either way, it's up to her to manage it, you don't need to get involved, beyond supporting her.

but the longer she procrastinates on it, the faster time will run out.

As you seem good friends, I think you can say this to her.

Agreed with PP that I don’t think you need to say anything with regard to IVF processes etc. Medical professionals will tell her this anyway.

How long have the convos about crying, shoes etc been going on? Just thinking that if this is a more recent development there could be a chance she is already pregnant but hasn’t shared that with you just yet.

If I ask when she’s starting, she’ll say when she’s lost a certain amount of weight. She’s been going to the gym religiously since I’ve known her, and started one of the weight loss drugs last year but discontinued it after a week because she got headaches. She does sometimes lose a bit of weight but then it goes back on when she goes on holiday or has an injury or falls off the wagon. I’m not sure what the BMI has to be for private IVF. She’ll openly discuss the specifics of her exercise regime but not much about diet.

I’ve been open with her about my struggles and IVF referral and if anything she’s happy we’re “on this journey together” without really acknowledging the steps and heartache involved. Selfishly I think I’m going to struggle sharing difficulties with her when she’s being so delusional and acting like she just needs to push a button and the baby will appear. I am very aware that sometimes it just doesn’t work out.

She’s been talking about it since last year so I doubt she’s pregnant. She’s very open about dating too so am as sure as I can be that she hasn’t had a one night stand. Secretly buying donor sperm would be very out of character.

Thanks everyone, this has been helpful. Autism isn’t something I’d considered but it does make sense. I do think she’s “infodumping” as PP said and child rearing is a whole new world of academic research for her, which she’s chosen me to share it with.

She’s smart enough to know her age and weight count against her and that it won’t happen by divine miracle so I think I’m just going to keep changing the subject and if she doesn’t like that, maybe the friendship has run its course, for now anyway.

Private NHS treatment has different BMI limits. If she can afford to, I would tell her to make an appointment asap and just encourage her

Private BMI can have flexible BMI limits depending on condition and clinic’s procedures and how confident the consultant is. I had pcos so they told me to get mine to 29. My friend’s husband had the problem and she’s in excellent health so they did her treatment at BMI 35. Another friend is young and got pregnant her first transfer at BMI 36. All the same clinic.

Don’t say anything just be supportive of whatever decision she makes. I also don’t like that you’ve just assumed she wouldn’t cope with a baby. You don’t know that, no one knows how they will cope until they have the baby.

You mentioned later on that you are also about to have ivf.. might that not be why she’s talking about it so much as you have it in common?