To worry about my son's "joint and several" tenancy agreement?

[mozzybytes]

My son is going into Year 2 of uni and has found a student flatshare in London with 4 friends. I will be paying his rent and will be his guarantor for this and any further liabilities. It is a "joint and several" liability tenancy agreement which means that all tenants/guarantors are collectively responsible e.g. if one or more tenants doesn't pay their share of the rent or causes any major damage. I understand this type of tenancy agreement is very common these days, but it worries me. Aibu?

We used guarantorinsure.co.uk

We're in the thick of this with DS1, and likely DS2 in the next few years. Luckily it's been fine. But I wasn't happy initially.
I believe some landlords will let you pay a years rent upfront to waive this clause. If that's an option?

I had this (didn't even know you could get insurance so good to know for next time). One tenant did drop out and one of the other parents got pursued for their outstanding rent. He contacted me and we agreed to share the outstanding rent (the third parent - 4 house sharing - wasn't in a position to pay anything). However, through negotiations with the letting agent and ex-tenant, we recouped the money. Sad situation and they paid us back at something like £5 per week. But it's all a really shit set up for parents because you're getting into contracts with people you have no control over. And, no, I've never seen a deposit returned either.

Guarantors will have been vetted by EA for affordability. This is standard in all student let accommodation agreements. If one student did drop out and want to leave the flatmates would need to find a replacement student to share with.

This was definitely the case in the city my dd was in! The vast majority of houses were through agents who all had these sort of contracts. My ds who lived in a different city rented an HMO direct with a landlord, which I agree is definitely better, but the type of contracts seems to differ depending on what the local student renting scene is like and also the availability of the accommodation. In dd’s case, the amount of students outstripped the amount of accommodation available, so agents seemed to have free rein to do what they wanted and if you didn’t sign it then they knew someone else would!

Same thing with my DS. No way did I want to be liable for the actions of five other people who I've never met. I was fortunately in the position to be able to pay 6 months' rent up front and thus exclude myself from the joint and several liability.

The only thing I am joint and several in, is power of attorney for my FIL.
In that situation it makes very good sense.

Thanks all. I've had a look at Guarantor Insure. It would cost me £200 to cover me for the year. I would be happy with that if it would help me sleep easy but I'm not sure it will completely. In the event of a dispute they will provide a dispute resolution service and, if necessary, cover the costs of pursuing a claim against the other tenants/guarantors, but ...

• Only if they think they have a more than 50% chance of succeeding - if not, your cover is invalid and you get nothing, so hard luck if they've done a disappearing act.
• It will cover the rent but will only cover dilapidations that can't be deducted from the 5 week deposit (so that money is still at risk).
• the term "dilapidations" isn't defined so I've asked them about it. I suspect it won't cover major incidents (e.g.a fire caused by a discarded cigarette from someone smoking in breach of the rental agreement and invalidating the landlord's insurance policy).

I didn't know there was insurance,that would've helped me sleep better at night. I was terrified during the pandemic when most of ds's house mates flew back home and I was terrified they'd default on the rent - thank God they didn't!

We only signed as guarantor for our child, not the joint and several guarantee. It was obvious they can do this as they had the amended contracts to hand.

Challenge the letting agent. They will try and get you to sign the “guarantor for everyone” but you can push back.

This is a very difficult choice as these agreements are standard. I wouldn't sign one but my children have been brought up to accept/expect that from me so they'd be no melt downs or accusations of 'ruining their lives'. Its possible if you don't sign he could lose his spot. It's also possible that if the other guarentors have signed, the agent might accept. Are you able to offer any money up front to appease the agent/landlord.
It all depends really on how responsible you feel for your child. Mine are adults now. I've lent one money for a house deposit and another cash for a kitchen extension. I've only ever given or lent money I'm prepared to lose. I would not be a guarantor for either of them, even now.

Standard agreement I’m afraid you just have to suck it up. I’ve signed 6 of these contracts (3 kids x 2 years) and never had an issue and got the majority of the deposit back.

I rented from age 18 at Uni until 45. Many Shared houses with randoms, shared houses with friends, acquaintances and flats with DH.

Never had any other contract than one that is jointly and severally liable. The LL wants to rent the whole house not individual rooms.

This is sadly routine for student accommodation. It stinks-but the landlords and their agents hold all the power...

I would get another written agreement between all the parents guarantors that they will pay for their own child's missed rent, so you'd be able to take them to a small claims court if they don't

Some US universities have sample co-tenant agreements on their websites, like this one: https://www.binghamton.edu/occ/pdfs/cotenancy.pdf but it doesn't seem to be a common thing here in the UK.

@mozzybytes There is a legal framework here. The agents and landlords cannot be forced to use one handed out by the university. DD1 finished uni in 2014. Her contracts were for joint and severally liable 10 years ago. I doubt they were new then but a queue of students wanted the flats! At least in London you don’t sign for the flat before Christmas as you do elsewhere.

I think you have to trust DC to make decent friends and be discerning. Why would he be friends with awful people? You brought him up. You are not vetting his friends so hopefully he’s done a decent job.

London does not have enough rental accommodation. It’s not a sleepy little town with a back street uni. It’s London - a big city with not enough flats! You really will have to suck it up and get over it. Does your DS think his friends are ok? Have you asked him about them? What courses are they on? If he cannot get a guarantor, he will run the risk of being left out and replaced. You need to stop worrying. Millions of students have had these contracts. Millions have been ok. So just get over it.

There is a legal framework here. The agents and landlords cannot be forced to use one handed out by the university.

@PresentingPercy , you have misunderstood. Nobody is forced to do anything. Co-tenant agreements, where they exist, are between the tenants, not the landlord. Some US universities provide their students with templates to help them protect themselves and each other.

Yes but not enforceable so limited use I think. Why would what the tenants agree supersede the contract with the LL? Students can agree what they like but they still need to pay the agreed rent for the flat. The whole flat.

You can try and insure your liabilities. However as it’s limited in scope, most parents don’t bother. Millions have Dc who have/had these contracts. Parents can disagree but were young adults and students chase too few flats, it’s a landlords market. I would probably just be happy if the flat was decent and well maintained.

I think you're right to be concerned but your DS won't find anywhere to live if you're not prepared to do it. Not a shared house anyway.

We flatly refused and after several conversations with estate agents amounting to a game of chicken, they all caved. It’s a try on. If they don’t cave, find another property.

If they don’t cave, find another property.

Easier said than done. Some university cities have a shortage of accommodation, Durham for example.

Why would what the tenants agree supersede the contract with the LL?

@PresentingPercy it doesn't supercede it, it supplements it. Read it and you'll understand it more clearly.

If one tenant defaults then the tenancy agreement protects the landlord by requiring the remaining tenants to cover the full liability. The co-tenant agreement is supplementary - it protects the tenants by helping them to pursue the defaulter to get their money back.

@mozzybytes Where are the students left behind meant to get the additional money from? That is joint and severely liable. The remaining tenants find the money!!!! How? A guarantor is probably better. It’s then the guarantor who pays up for their defaulting student. As indeed happened in a house share I know about. How are the students meant to go after the one who left? With what resources?

The only contract that matters is the one that’s signed by both parties. When students are a group, one pulling out because mum disagrees is a nuisance. There won’t be loads of flats in London at a given price. It’s very much a landlords’ market. They will find people the next day.

I was asked to do this, and had to say no. I knew I wouldn't be able to take the worry. She's now decided to stay on campus, thank goodness