To worry about my son's "joint and several" tenancy agreement?

[mozzybytes]

My son is going into Year 2 of uni and has found a student flatshare in London with 4 friends. I will be paying his rent and will be his guarantor for this and any further liabilities. It is a "joint and several" liability tenancy agreement which means that all tenants/guarantors are collectively responsible e.g. if one or more tenants doesn't pay their share of the rent or causes any major damage. I understand this type of tenancy agreement is very common these days, but it worries me. Aibu?

Yes, it is very late. They found the flat just before the end of term in June and have been slow to do the electronic paperwork for reference checks. This is partly because of holidays, working etc, but also because they don't seem to read and act on emails very efficiently - it worries me that they are all either very laid back or have their heads in the sand. I've been trying to encourage my son to agree a few basics before signing anything, such as who will be having the tiny room (at reduced rent), who will be paying the rent from their account (because the agent will only accept a single payment, not 5) and how the bills will be organised, but it all seems painfully slow.

We live in Greater London, so the fallback plan is for him to commute until he finds an alternative, but that would mean letting down his friends, which is a big deal.

Thanks to people who suggested Guarantor Insurance - I'll look into that.

Thanks. Which company did you buy the insurance from?

My children having been renting for for 5 + years and we have never experienced this. Each individual is responsible f our r their share of the rent. If someone leaves they pay until the room is re rented. We have done deposit and guarantee with equal responsibility for shared spaces and sole responsibility for dc bedroom

The single payment thing would worry me more than the joint and several liability tbh

As others have said you would only be pursued for someone else’s default after the landlord had pursued both the other tenant and their guarantor to the point of suing them and not getting satisfaction from a judgment against them.

Insisting on one payment means that one of the group will have control of an awful lot of money - how can the others ensure they are not going to nick it/ use it for gambling or drugs etc? One solution might be to set up a joint bank account with at least 2 names on it and everyone set up a standing order into that account the day before rent is due , with a standing order the next day to the landlord so the money disappears immediately. But this requires some grown up paperwork!

i’ve signed these and couldn’t afford to pay. Current house is around 5000 a month. So difficult. Will now look into insurance, didnt know it existed. But I think you are stuck unless you are prepared to say he can’t share with friends which will undoubtedly change his 2nd year experience.
For those saying very late London is very different to elsewhere.

It's fair for the landlord to say when they rent as a group that they all bear responsibility for the flat. Back when I was at uni we had this, but without the guarantor, so most of us only moved in with friends. Guarantor insurance is useful, but you could also rent him a studio or bedsit if you don't want the risk of flat share implications. If he's moving in with people who are that untrustworthy, then it might be a good idea anyway.

On WIWIKAU (Facebook site for uni parents) they have more info on the guarantor insurance and preferential rates I think, might be worth checking it out.

I was going to say this. I got a discount using their code.

Unfortunately standard. It's rubbish. And as ever, landlord let them live in a grotty broken house for 2 years then tried to take their deposit. Also COMPLETELY standard. We went nuclear over that and they did back down. People wonder why landlords get such a bad name.....

This is standard for student tenancies - you can get insurance against it or offer to pay the year’s rent upfront.

Very common I'm afraid, don't forget that being a guarantor means that you are responsible for all aspects of the tenancy not just rent. So, if a tenant smashes the place up or causes damage negligently then the guarantor may have to cough up. And being jointly and severally responsible also applies to all aspects of the tenancy too.

And my dd has never got a deposit back. It’s disgusting, but it is standard.

We refused to get involved in the single payment thing BTW; we insisted on paying our daughter's share. Thankfully. The girl who was lead tenant dropped out of uni.

I mean...insisted on paying our daughter's share direct to the letting agency

We have just signed an agreement like this for our dd's 2nd year accommodation.
We had expected to be guarantors for her rent but were shocked about being responsible for others.

We almost didn't sign. Dd was really upset and said they were all going to lose the house. We exchanged a few emails with the letting agent and ended up signing but being unhappy about it.

The amount of rent being charged is exorbitant and this was the icing on the cake.

Unfortunately, most student accommodation is now run by businesses and this seems to be a standard clause.

Unfortunately, most student accommodation is now run by businesses and this seems to be a standard clause.

This is definitely the case, and also for shared accommodation once they start work. Those saying just don't sign are being naive to think that there is plentiful accommodation where there is no joint and several liability.

I used Guarantor Insure when DD was in her third year house. I didn't need to for her second year because it wasn't a joint and several liability contract, but these are as rare as hen's teeth.

You can refuse to sign, amend it and say you'll only be liable for his portion of the rent. That's very common. I found this out after signing it. Luckily DS's friends all paid up. A few other parents altered it and agents were fine about it.

it's a terrible system. Don't sign.

You can refuse to sign, amend it and say you'll only be liable for his portion of the rent.

A lot of landlords/agents won't accept this. I tried that with DD's third year house rental and they wouldn't accept it. More and more landlords these days go through an agent, so it is more difficult to negotiate. As rental properties are getting harder to find it makes it more difficult for the tenent to dictate terms.

Maybe it is different in different areas.

In the Uni town my DC is at it was impossible to get a flat unless you accepted this
We had met all the flat mates and that gave us some comfort
And because accommodation was at a premium we knew if anyone left they would be easily replaced
They stayed together the whole time and there were no issues

Dd did shared house in year 2. I amended the paperwork to make clear that she wouldn't be liable nor would I for others bills. She shared with 3 friends but didn't know their finances.

In 6 years of my son renting I have never been a "joint and several" guarantor; all the tenants have had individual agreements.
This is Southampton and Leeds

I would want to see the contracts for all the other joint guarantors in this situation.

It's difficult in Newcastle to not get a joint and several agreement.

Good luck finding an alternative as it seems absolutely standard unfortunately.

DD just going into 2nd year at Bath Uni and all of the houses she looked at had this type of contract so I felt pushed into it. No way could I afford a one bed flat for her and no way would she want that anyway. I will be taking out the insurance as it is a house share of 6 and rent is vvv expensive in Bath.