That two parents working doesn’t work

[Itsmyshadow]

We have 3 DCs aged 8, 4 and 1. DH works full time. I have recently returned from mat leave doing 4 days per week. On my day off I have DC4 and DC1 at home and a large part of that is taken up with swimming lessons.

I feel like I’m failing at everything to be honest. House is a state, am not on top of my work, kids in nursery and after school club for long hours, and don’t even get me started on the amount of after school sporting activities DC1 does which don’t really fit with going to work.

DH is a great dad, does his fair share with the kids, does 50% of the school / nursery runs, and most of DC1’s after school sporting stuff (whilst I have the younger two). He could pull his weight a bit more with the housework but gets off his bottom when I huff and puff / nag, and does all of the DIY and garden. Like most women I carry the mental load, doing all the school, nursery, medical admin etc.

I feel like I need to do a real half arsed job of my work on my wfh days to keep on top of the washing / house / kid admin / kid homework (saw a thread on here the other day about that), but workload / conscience won’t let me do that, and that doesn’t solve for the fact that DC1 has football at 5:30 on a Tuesday or hockey at 6pm on a Wednesday and if I finish at 5pm and I’m in the office, those timings don’t work.

We have a cleaner and a robot vacuum, but I still can’t keep on top of all the crap all around the house (paintings from nursery, party bag loot, paper admin that needs addressing, magazines etc), and feel like the kids get given toys / grow out of clothes much faster than I can get sort through the old ones. Result is a massive mess of a playroom that I keep getting half through sorting before the kids mess it up again and there’s nowhere for everything to go.

Don’t talk to me about TOMM or similar. I’m not lacking motivation or direction. I spend hours per week washing and putting away clothes, batch cooking, sorting through piles of stuff, firefighting cleaning tasks (usually when something mouldy is discovered or someone has spilt something somewhere), but no sooner is something done it’s a complete mess again.

So those of you who work a lot of hours and have young kids. How are you managing? Do you spend hours every evening cooking and cleaning (how do you find the energy if so?), and how to you manage the demands of kids after school activities / social lives?

I know it feels good- it would have felt good for me to do many other things on the many hard days with 3 under 3 but it’s such a short time they are at home and so much sheer joy too. When you had kids, don’t you want to spend the days with them? Take them to places? See them make little friends, make them food end explore the world together? Enjoy them before they are packed off to school for the rest of their childhoods?

I'm a single mum of 3 (not single by choice before anyone says I shouldn't have had them), 2 have additional needs. It's non stop and relentless hard work yet "society" considers me lazy for "only" working 3 days a week (4 soon). There is just so much expected of mums. If my ex had the kids full time he'd be considered a hero not an idle scrounger. We need to enable people to prioritise family more somehow.

Totally agree. Must be so hard keeping it all going by yourself. You are most certainly not lazy by any stretch.

@PurpleWisteria1 Your husband clearly didn’t want to watch your kids make little friends, did he? And by the sounds of it, he didn’t want much to do with family life at all, so it’s far easier for all concerned and very convenient that you have decided that it’s a must for a parent (the mother, natch) to stay at home all the time and that it’s the Most Fulfilling Thing Ever. It might have worked for you and your situation but you simply can’t extrapolate to every family and every situation.

If it’s so important to have a parent at home, making memories and cooking tea, then you should be perfectly happy to facilitate any and both parents to maximise their family time. It follows that it’s not fair on the parents or children to have one parent out of the house all the time and one at home all the time.

manontroppo - calm down. Loads of husbands of working women hardly see their kids, do they? Loads of kids these days are in childcare for long hours and only see the parents for an hour or two in the evening. What life is that? At least that husband is facilitating his children being able to be in their own home with their own mum - who is more than happy to do this.

I don't need to spend 24/7 with him to experience those things with him. Exploring the world also costs money and we'll be able to explore so much more of it with two incomes instead of just one.

Are you saying you can't be nurturing AND work? I think I manage to do both and so does my DH. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Does your partner who enables you to be SAHP not still nurture your kids on his days off? Or is he off to the golf course having 'fulfilled' his purpose to the family? I have two sons. The elder helps me put loads of washing in and look after his younger brother including feeding him, playing with him when we are home together and he understands his role in running the house. He also sees his dad doing the washing, hoovering, looking after the baby and not just the traditional male role of earning, DIY and BBQing 😉. With any luck my son has imbibed this knowledge for the future!

I have two sons who really value me and as recently a SAHM they can see first hand that those qualities of kindness, every day care and attention are just as important as bringing home the bacon.

Those aren't opposites. Being kind, and giving your children attention and every day care is not the opposite to 'bringing home the bacon'.

To be honest I have never found it an issue to have 2 working parents and raising children. Although I think this specifically is harder with 3 kids and 2 not yet in school.

I just don't see the need for 1 person to stay at home full time particularly when you consider most children are at school from 4.

Most people who do find it difficult to balance just have a partner who is useless or views the house and kids as woman's work so the wife ends up cutting back her hours rather than just being a proper partnership.

Look, you’re doing everything you can and you can only do your best. You are categorically not failing. You’re essentially doing 2 full time jobs which let’s be honest, is impossible. Be kind to yourself.

I agree with a pp re getting a gardener if you can afford it to free up dh to do more housework. The other bit of advice I’d give is get the kids into the habit of picking up after themselves now while they are still young. I was a sahm when mine were young and didn’t do this and I’ve made a real rod for my own back. Don’t feel you have to do everything yourself. The kids can help a bit even at this age with small age appropriate tasks. It helps them get in the habit for when they are (surprisingly) even messier teenagers.

Did you miss the many women on this thread, and all over MN, who have said they would have hated to be a SAHM? It turns out quite a lot of mothers aren't personally happy to stay at home. And there are many who are extremely glad they went back to work when their DH could no longer work, or sacked off the marriage.

Many of us here also value our children having a in depth relationship with their father; you know, the kind that comes with being involved with the minute of every day life.

@PurpleWisteria1 Yes my DH is a great parent but historically a much less involved one than me as he’s at work full time so simply not around in their lives as much- this isn’t so stark now as they are older, up later and out of the house more anyway, but when they were pre schoolers in bed by 7pm - he doesn’t get home until 8pm so they wouldn’t see him sometimes for days.

This is what I don't get, in your view women who work and use nursery for childcare don't raise their children and yet your DH wouldn't see his children for DAYS at a time and yet he was "a great dad"?!

If money and careers aren't important why was your DH out at work until 8pm and leaving before they woke so he didn't see them for days at a time?
Why didn't he cut back his hours if money wasn't as important as spending early years with children? Or switch roles entirely?

Sissynova
I don’t know that poster’s situation but to get to my old job I had to be in for half eight and had an hour/two hour depending on traffic commute. Now dh has a one and a half hour commute but we live 35 minutes from the train station. On mn people would say live closer to your job or change jobs, but when you can only afford certain areas and said areas have very little prospects (no companies or factories) that’s not a possibility. You can be a great parent but not see your child enough 5 days a week

Sissynova - there is no limit on what you can give to kids. You can - obviously - have a SAHP and the other parent still be very involved outside of their work. I don't know why you think it's either / or. It's very often both. Also one family's concept of 'enough time' will be very different to another's. It's impossible to compare like with like.

Well we could have switched roles? But the roles were agreed way before we even considered having children? Before we were in a long term relationship even. Isn’t that how most couples organise themselves?
Someone has to work- that’s blatantly obvious. I’m sure my husband would have in some ways liked to see the kids more and in some ways I would have enjoyed the odd day a week working. But in our view it’s very important to have one parent as the main day time carer for the children. So that’s how we split the roles.
If your child is at nursery for the working week, then you have outsourced a large part of their care development, progress to someone else.
Im not sure what you don’t get?

Well I only think it is either more because most SAHM's on this thread seem to be stating that about their own situation. One partner having to work so much in order to not need the second income that you don't see your children for literal days at a time isn't being "very involved" is it?

my DH would work those hours if I was a SAHM or not. Or if we didn’t have kids. That’s his job that’s he’s studied and trained hard for- he’s not doing it because of no second income per say but it is a high earning job so has allowed me to stay with the kids which I what I wished to do- didn’t want anyone else being the main caregiver in those early years. It’s bad enough at 4 when they start school!
He is fully involved when he is not at work.

Would you be able to drop to 3 days a week?
The 4 year old will be in School from September. You could put your one year old in nursery for 1 of your 2 days off work and you could get on with whatever needs doing in the house and then the other day spend focusing on your 1 year old.

So your husband is just choosing to spend as little time as possible with his own children when there is no financial need for it whatsoever.

Interesting that your views are polar opposites and yet this is who you chose to have a family with.

Agree wit other posters that you should reconsider the nanny. In the short term, it might take a lot of your (combined) income, but it would allow you to work more easily, do better at work (with promotion and pay increases that follow) and it's relatively short term while DC are young. It frees up a lot of your time and gives you a lot more flexibility.

Alternatively (or in addition), you might need to throw more money at the problem generally. A cleaner twice a week rather than once a week - someone who can also sort through clothes or do some of the heavy lifting.

Is there another parent you can share the lifting of your DC for sports with? We weren't able to do this with one of DS's sports and it was exhausting. But we do with some of DD's, and it makes a huge difference. Or, if she's playing at academy level, look around for one closer to you - you might be surprised. DS has moved club (not football) and it turns out the training and support at the new club is as good, if not better, even though it's smaller.

Ah the great dad. Wouldn’t have had kids if he’d actually had to look after them of course. Some women really really have to hope they don’t get sick or in an accident don’t they, as what would happen to their kids?

Mine would be fine. Our nanny was sick so Dh stayed late this morning to take them to his parents, and I had a little sleep in with baby then Dh took them all to school/his parents and we both worked. I prepped stirfry at lunch and he cooked it when he got home with the kids as I was still working.

Women have studied and trained hard for jobs too.

I’m not sure what you are getting at or why you think our views are polar opposite?
We talked about children when we met and started a relationship many years ago - I believe it’s best for some parent to be at home with them in the early years and so did he. I had a strong desire to do that when the time came. He preferred to work rather than be a stay at home dad. That was fine with me- someone needs to be earning and someone needs to be doing the childcare.
If it had been different we probably wouldn’t have made it to the marriage stage as our fundamental views would have been too far apart.
I had a professional job, as did he. When kids came, we did what we had always planned.
Why is that opposing views?
He doesn’t choose to spend as little time where have you got that from- he works the hours his job requires and the rest of it is spent with us!

Lucky you for having parents / parents in law that will have the grandkids.
Personally I wouldn’t have had kids if a nanny was bringing them up / caring for them instead of me. Kids first. Career second. Otherwise I wouldn’t have had them.

I honestly don’t know why someone would choose to have children if they don’t intend to see them develop and grow day by day- to see the milestones in fine tuned detail.

Why on earth did your husband choose to have kids then?

@PurpleWisteria1 Kids first. Career second. Otherwise I wouldn’t have had them.

And yet your husband was a "great dad" but didn't see his children for days at a time due to his career. Did he put kids first or career first would you say?