Teachers - are your 6-8 year olds this rude?

[WhaleBlue]

I work in lots of different schools working with small groups of children aged between 6 & 8. More recently I’ve noticed the level of interrupting when I’m speaking, not listening to instructions and generally thinking what they have to say is far more important than what I have to stay really off putting.

I’ve been doing the same role for over 20 years and never had any real issues, but over recent months am becoming more frustrated with this. Is it just my area or is it the same across the UK?

God only knows how their class room teacher copes with about 30 of them at the same time.

This is also something that they have expressed an interest in which their parents are paying for.

You can't deny that parents on their phone all the time must have had a big impact on kids development.

This is a really important point people are overlooking. It is bloody hard when both parents have full time jobs.

During lockdown my employer - the public sector - expected me to WFH, teach my reception child and care for a one year old while churning out my usual workload. No reduced workload or furlough for me, partner also keyworker working out of the home, so all down to me. I could have put my kids in school and nursery, but a family member died from it, so I was scared and everyone was pumping out the 'we're all in this together' bullshit while loading the burden mainly onto working women. My one year old was probably the most neglected and he is behind developmentally, but does have ASD. I think I actually did well with my older child despite the workload. My kids went back for the last part of that year, so it was only a few months, but that was because i was a keyworker. Many didn't have that option, even some of my colleagues got refused due to WFH. Why is everyone assuming people dumped their kids in front of screens by choice or laziness? My situation wasn't unique.

We need to look at what parents are expected to do now compared to our parents. We have to feed healthy meals (not oven shite like my mum did with us), ferry our kids to lots of clubs and keep immaculate homes apparently, while both parents hold down careers and deal with the usual life admin. That's why we use ipads, but how is this different to being dumped in front of the telly like I was?

I do encourage my kids to play out and I agree there is less of that now, but parents do seem cautious about it. There are less community activities. My school always had discos and events like country dancing and other crap (with a bar!) that brought the community together. There seems to be fewer opportunities for that now.

We have exactly the same at Brownies. Less so at Rainbows at the minute. It's just awful. We have a year long waiting list but I'm actually considering dropping our group size from 24 to 16 because its so unmanageable, in the hope that being able to give a bit more attention to a smaller group will help improve things.

Yes they were toddlers. Exactly that: toddlers. Not children at school- who SHOULD have been at school.

I can guarantee toddlers then were no way as affected long term as the reception/ year one / year two children at that time of lockdown.

I've been teaching a long time. Yes, behaviour is worse, but it's easy to forget all those lovely, well behaved kids. Many of whom have experienced covid; parents on phones; full time working parents; lots of screen time. Yet, they can still behave appropriately. Which brings us back to parenting and circumstances.

If you're brought up in a house full of drama you don't know what's appropriate behaviour; you don't know that telling an adult to fuck off is inappropriate, because in your house that's normal.

I've lost count of the number of times 11 or 12 year olds have told me they don't like the way I'm looking at them, or they don't like my tone , or to stop screaming at them (can you take your coat off please?) And manners have died.

Child appears at my door.
"Pen. "
"Sorry?"
"Need a pen."
"Oh, you mean 'please may I borrow a pen. '
'Yeah. You got one or what?"

This is interesting from a HT point of view. Thank you.

I teach this age range and my class this year has been particularly bad for interrupting, speaking over others, carrying on chatting when I've explained it's time to listen. They're much better now after a year of training but it's been far worse than previous years. Last year's classwere also chatty but picked up the "rules" quicker.

It's having your needs satisfied instantly that's part of the problem. I can see myself doing it on my own ipad or phone. Switching from one thing to another. Everything is so immediate. Nobody has to wait for anything so they can't control their impulses.

And also a lack of attention from the adults in their lives. Some parents barely look up when their child approaches them at home time. Toddlers are playing on phones in their pushchairs instead of talking to their parent.

I was at a cricket match last weekend. There were games, play equipment and of course the cricket to look at. And so much space to run around. There were about thirty children and nearly all of them were given a screen to watch. Whereas when we were kids we would have played together, rolled down hills, invented games and probably had a brilliant time. They don't seem to be able to interact with each other.

For context, my current class were pre-schoolers in the first lockdown and missed a term of Reception in the second lockdown so they did lose out on some of the "school-ready" routines. Our current year 4s missed part of Year 1 and Year 2 but they are by far our best-behaved, most respectful class. Cohorts can just vary.

It's very striking in the early years too. The last couple of years especially have been very challenging. Lots of children where we have huge concerns about their social skills and their ability to regulate their emotions. Lots of incidents of children being very physical towards each other in the pre school class. They are only little and still learning, but there has been a noticeable change in this area compared to previous cohorts.

I absolutely do believe that lockdowns had an impact on this and that children did engage with screens more than ever before and that this has been difficult for families to reduce. Parenting has changed greatly over the last few years.

I teach KS2 children, both whole class and small intervention groups. The kids in the intervention groups are far more chatty 9n their group than when in whole class, where they’re probably slightly intimidated by the couple of challenging children in there! One particular girl never speaks in whole class, but chatters away in our small group!

This is one of the few countries that expect children that young to sit and follow instruction and concentrate like adults. It's ridiculous.

These are children whose normal social development has been interrupted by the pandemic, lock downs, limits on the numbers of people they can meet, mask wearing and social distancing.

Why are your surprised by these effects.

Sounds like they like to answer and participate in class. I find this only positive
Someone told off my daughter for wanting to say something in the active way you describe. My daughter was really upset by the way she was told off and I even had a brief chat with the Head mistresse

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Good on you if you are though as you have managed to encapsulate the issue perfectly. 🌟

May I suggest you read the full thread, it’s that style of parenting and cotton wool wrapping that’s part of this issue. Rude interruptions are not a positive in classroom settings. Are you meeting the head every time your DC is corrected?

On behalf of all parents then I apologise. I’m well aware my youngest (age 10) doesn’t have the same social skills my eldest had at the same age. Lockdown? Poor parenting? Maybe. Until lockdown the only device my youngest had been on was the television. That all changed during lockdown. She loves Roblox, YouTube…. Now I used to work part time and have more time to spend with my DC but because of CoL I had to increase my hours and go back to full time work so I’m very conscious that I’m not as present and thanks to his workload my DH is virtually invisible, so whilst we are trying our best, we could be doing better.
I also agree that parents are so overprotective these days. I see a noticeable difference between the parents of my eldest and the parents of my youngest. The latter group are ridiculous. Homework? Squeals of complaints. That’s a no. Appropriate clothes for school? Also whining etc. Parents are making up for a lack of presence in their DC’s lives in one area by overcompensating in another. It’s making for some very strange kids.

Agree. I've watched kids constantly interrupt their parents, who instantly give them attention, thus reinforcing the behaviour. Kids grow up thinking adults are there to attend to any thought in their head, and that every single little thing they do is fascinating and entertaining.

In my expert

It’s our Year 6 that are most challenging. Ever single staff member has had clashes with them.

You tell them not to do something because someone might get hurt - they carry on. You tell them again. They shout that you are out to get them and are always in their face. Someone gets hurt. They laugh and say “They shouldn’t have been standing there”. No empathy.

They break stuff deliberately. We remind them it costs money. They shrug. So what? I don’t care. It’s fun breaking it.

They also shout out in class all the time.
“We’re doing maths now - let’s have a look at the fractions we did yesterday to remind us…”
”This is boring - why are we doing this - I want to go home- this is rubbish - I want to do something fun-“ for up to 15 minutes. Talk to the parents and they laugh. Boys will be boys, yeah, she doesn’t like school, I was rubbish at maths too…
Random fart noises all the time. They should be too old for this, but they aren’t.

“Could you tuck your chair in please?”
“No, you do it if you care that much.” To the headteacher - so it’s not just one person not controlling it properly.

We’ve got several year 6s who cry at ridiculous things. In PE - you get caught out - cry. You are a boy and two girls are put in your rounders team? Cry. You don’t want to wear the football bib to identify teams - cry.

They are about to go into Year 7 and they are so young- I really worry about them. They think they are really tough with all the rudeness and they aren’t. They’re still so little in their outlook. It’s not a good combination for secondary school.

Pressed post too soon

In my experience, if you bollock the children the parents bollock you.

I've noticed a massive decline in behaviour in the last few years. The number of disruptive children per class has increased so the balance is tipped - I'm talking up to a third of the class. It's utterly soul destroying for the teacher and the other children.
Leaving the teaching profession after 30 years at the end of term. Never had behaviour management issues in the past. Now, it's intolerable. I'm broken.

Year cohorts really differ though. My son is Y3 and despite the huge gap in abilities, they gell well together and are know as being a lovely year group (ie. Nice kids, some not so bright, some SEN). Y2 are apparently feral, but high achieving.

This isn't a covid thing, this is wider society thing - 2 working parents, COL, screens, less freedom to just be, never allowed to be bored.

I’m the 1960s, I think. Where everything is working mothers’ fault.

Active learning is great, interrupting a lesson and the learning of 29 others kids is not. Your child is no important than any other in that class. What if everyone of them wants to share their thoughts??? Listening to others, sharing your thoughts at the right time and generally respecting class expectations is an important learning behaviour. Your doing your child no favours with your attitude and 100% the headteacher inwardly rolled her eyes and did nothing about your comment.

I think this is probably right because my year 1 child was 2.5 during the first months of the pandemic and had almost a year out of nursery despite having already been there for 18 months whereas being age 1 during it wouldn't have been so disruptive - it's still a baby stage and many just didn't start nursery til later rather than have any disruption