5 year old so rude and disrespectful to me

[Cantlastsixweeksofthis]

Is this normal?

Dd is speaking to me rudely, for example if I bring toast, she’ll almost shout ‘I wanted cereal!’ Today she said ‘You’re doing everything wrong!’ Or she’ll say ‘I said not like that!’ It’s getting embarrassing in public and I have to admit I get angry at her as rudeness is my pet peeve, she sounds bratty and spoilt. She’s a lovely, fun, smart girl, but not when she is like this.
Can’t help wondering what I’m doing wrong and how to deal with this?

Agree with snack size. Give her the option is ask nicely or have what you have brought her.

If you give her the option and she continues just say you won't be spoken to like that and walk away.

Yes - it's likely she'll escalate the behaviour at first to see if you mean it. So mean it!

If you are out and she says anything rude then tell her she has a chance to ask you nicely or you'll be going home.

Then follow through.

The trick is to practice your most bored voice and speak in that tone as it's often monotonous and therefore they understand they aren't getting a reaction.

It’s so hard! Both my kids are rude sometimes and I’m at a loss.

My 4 year old is very very volatile, and when he’s lost his temper, he’ll shout awful things at me, like “you are stupid”. He doesn’t do it when he’s calm, it’s when he’s really lost it, but I have no idea how to handle it.

what @WiddlinDiddlin said is a good approach.

Skelpit lugs were de rigeur in my childhood too but not a parenting style we emulate nowadays thank God.

‘Did you know it’s considered rude/cheeky to say/do whatever’ was our warning. Then if they spoke to us (or more rarely, others) rudely again we did what this post said. ‘You can make your lunch yourself then’ or ‘you can speak nicely or we can go home.’ Got to actually follow through and do it though! Can be embarrassing but it does work.

I agree it’s important to explain (as often as need be, in a measured way at a calm moment) why it is we don’t speak to one another unpleasantly. The consequences etc.

FWIW I’ve got two well-mannered children. The younger has always had a tendency to be cheekier than the elder, but only in private, and mainly now when she’s tired or not getting her own way. I do remember she was particularly defiant at four, I used to get some very interesting nursery reports. However, we worked on it. Now, as soon as I say ‘actually, you do it,’ or ‘the way you’re talking makes me think you’re too tired to go out with your mate later’ or ‘would you speak to your teacher like that?’ she stops it. She’s probably getting slightly lippier again now she’s a tween so there are definitely phases, maybe it’s transitional as they edge towards independence. Testing the boundaries. A bit of verbal rebellion is natural kid-ness of course, they’re not robots, but overall she’s a notably well-mannered lass and it’s been commented on in school/ friends’ houses. She also definitely knows where the line is at home.

I am not a strict parent overall and let a lot go (probably compensating for my own childhood) but I’ve seen a few of DCs friends who were jaw-droppingly cheeky at five still be so cheeky at ten and fifteen it’s tough to watch. Their parents tended to be the sort to ignore as well, so I haven’t any anecdotal proof they just grow out of it alone (unfortunately).

Do you not tell him to never, ever speak like that to you, or anyone, ever again? You don't make him face consequences for such awful behaviour?

My pet peeve is shouting repeatedly 'I'm thirsty,' as a demand. Instead of saying 'Please may I have a drink?' we've made it clear he needs to actually ask.

Oh god yes, infuriating! We reply “Are you darling? You should get yourself a drink then” until he cracks and rephrases it as a polite request.

I always said I wouldn't be doing anything if I was spoken to like that. 5 isn't too little to understand you speak nicely if you want something and you don't demand, shout or call names. You say please and thank you or you don't get what you want until you do. If you refuse you get nothing. If we are at a café or soft play and you behave that way we leave. No more fun. No shouting needed, just instruction and action if needed. I definitely wouldn't ignore someone talking to me like shit, children need to learn right from wrong. They can't go around speaking rudely to people and expecting them all to turn a blind eye and ignore it or give in to demands.

When he’s calm @Aquamarine1029 yes, I do. There’s no use in talking to him before the red mist has cleared. He’ll say sorry mummy and is very down on himself.

But once the red mist descends next time, it’ll happen again.

As a teacher, I have noticed that polite, respectful children have polite respectful parents. Children model their behaviour on their parents. Shouty, rude children tend to have shouty rude parents.
The term,'Punishment', is so loved by a section of MN. Schools don't use the term anymore but talk about behaviour management. That is your goal OP, to encourage polite behaviour from your daughter by modelling polite respectful interaction in your dealings with your daughter. Honestly, it works.

I really hate the "who has she learnt this from?" or "she's mimicking you" comments. This is such complete nonsense, and overt mother shaming.

Kids aren't born polite, gentle little souls. We teach them to be that. My toddler used to bite others. It was a phase, he got over it. He certainly didn't learn that from me biting him!

Don't worry, OP. It's her age - she's seeing what she can get away with. Just stop engaging with her when she speaks like that, and she'll soon stop. I often use the phrase, "Let me know when you're ready to speak to me politely," then ignore them until they do.

How patronising. Nobody likes a know it all!

I have one DS who is Autistic and another who has ADHD. They both have good manners and are never rude to people. There are two main reasons:

1. We model manners to each other and to them. We talk to them nicely, say please and thank you to them and each other in front of them, and have explicitly explained since they were tiny that “this family speaks kindly to each other” and then demonstrate it daily.
2. Zero tolerance for rudeness and disrespect. Any rudeness would be met with “we do not talk to each other like that in this house” and they are told how they should have said things. We also apologise to them if we lose our cool or go too far, and expect the same respect in return.

Basically you have to show them how to behave by your behaviour, don’t be hypocritical (“do as I say, not as I do” is ridiculous and undermines your own efforts), practice mutual respect, and as others have said, have boundaries/ consequences and stick to them.

No, it’s not normal at age 5. Toddler age, yes absolutely, but she should have been taught better by now.

How did you react to it when she was a toddler? Did you not teach her manners?

If you’re getting angry that’s just adding fuel to the fire and she’s going to do it more.

She’s 100% right.

You are describing a different issue - it’s not the rudeness that’s the issue, it’s your DS struggling to regulate his emotions and they completely overwhelm him.

Read on how to anchor him and help him regulate.
Think about his triggers - at that age it could be that he feels so powerless over his life that he needs a bit more choice/independence (within reason and in a controlled environment).

It’s not patronising. It’s the truth.

Yes this is pretty much how I would handle it. A sharp look and and calm but stern voice. And never give or do what she has just demanded! She either speaks politely or goes without!

Of course it needs to be tackled appropriately. However please been mindful of the behaviours that you as adults are modeling to your children. I work in child protection so at the extreme end. Children learn societal norms from those around them. At such a young age they have not yet learnt appropriate behaviours, it is your job as an adult to manage and work with this. They will not yet understand context of why this is important. Of course it is okay to be annoyed, but you also need to consider your child's lived experiences. Many adults and parents talk to each without respect, shout and say horrible things. Our children pick up on this.

Tell her it's not acceptable, she is old enough to understand. Consequences if she carries on, you should not be abused by your child, even verbally.

1. Model how you want your child to behave

1. Do some research about what your child is developmentally capable of at only 5-years-old

1. Adjust your expectations

1. Don't listen to the authoritarian parents of Mumsnet, it is gross and outdated.

DD4 is going through this phase too, maybe it is a 4-5 year old thing. She also does the thing mentioned by pp, “My water is empty!” Irritatingly from several rooms away and I haaaate being bellowed at by anyone from a different room, I won’t have it. I can hear her growing increasingly furious and doing Rumpelstiltskin foot stomps, working herself into an empty water bottle frenzy. It’s always, always worse when she’s tired or hungry so after de-escalating and appropriate response, I deploy porridge or banana.

It’s also always worse if I butt heads with her – I’m very sleep-deprived with the new baby and have zero patience so occasionally lose my rag with the rudeness and it never ends well, we both just ramp up and up and up. Staying calm stops it getting worse, even if she continues to be a ratbag and it doesn’t actually get better. She does always apologise and will sometimes explain that she was hungry/tired/angry and didn’t know why (I know why: hungry/tired/too much TV) and so she was rude/shouty. We’re working on appropriate ways to deal with being angry, so sometimes she’ll run off in the middle of a rudeness spell yelling “I NEED QUIET TIME!” and go and seethe in her bedroom at the injustice of life. Then return later to apologise and request, politely, the thing she wanted in the first place. We also use lines like “We don’t shout in this house”, and “You’re right, I was grumpy this morning and I shouldn’t have been, I’m sorry” – she’s very keen, rightly, to point out that I’m also a ratbag at the moment.

My DD went through this at 5 and 6. I used to think who is she talking to?! One little tidbit that helped for me is 'would you speak to Mrs Jones like that?!' (insert their own teacher name there) she would say no. I'd say well don't speak to me like that please, it's rude and unkind. You could see her thinking about it afterwards and it definitely nipped it in the bud a few times.

I can't stand that type of tone and it's usually by those that think they know all yet don't even have their own kids yet. I'll just agree to disagree with you on this one.

You must absolutely deal with this right now. Don't do anything for her if she is rude to you. Seriously you'll be in so much trouble by the time she hits preteens, and it'll be too late. I never let my boys be rude to me and now they're very pleasant teenagers to live with, with respect for me and other people.

Yes you’re right @7Worfs but it doesn’t make it any less mortifying when it’s in public!

I have no idea how to anchor him. I need to read The Explosive Child. He moves on relatively quickly once calm but the damage is done in terms of public meltdowns. His main trigger is if he hurts himself but it could be anything when he’s in a bad mood.

she's likely copying you or other adults.