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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the law needs to change on 4x4s and Supersized SUVs in Cities.

551 replies

JustMint · 06/07/2023 16:50

Unsure how, but today's news is just horrifying, these vehicles really need to be reduced in numbers in residential areas in my opinion. They are significantly heavier than smaller cars (I know that's stating the obvious) but who really needs a 4X4 in a city?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
greenacrylicpaint · 07/07/2023 07:36

yanbu
vehicles should be taxed by weight and horse power. no exception for electric motors.

only exception for agricultural use on agricultural land.

Justputitdown · 07/07/2023 07:38

tenbob · 07/07/2023 07:28

This is also not the first tragedy where a child has been killed by an SUV/4X4.

But you’ve still not been able to say how many of those would have been avoided if the car was an estate or MPV rather than 4x4

It’s all well and good saying everyone could be driving a Polo but anyone I know with a 4x4 has it because they need a big car. So if you banned SUVs, they would swap to a MPV or estate which are a similar weight and power

I just checked and my estate car is TWO TONNES lighter than then defender involved in the accident (1.5 tonnes v 3.5).

Research shows that accidents involving SUVs are approx 8x more dangerous: www.google.com/amp/s/road.cc/content/news/suvs-8-times-more-dangerous-kids-walking-or-cycling-295527%3famp

I don't understand how anyone in their right minds can be arguing this.

SamanthaCaine · 07/07/2023 07:39

tenbob · 07/07/2023 07:28

This is also not the first tragedy where a child has been killed by an SUV/4X4.

But you’ve still not been able to say how many of those would have been avoided if the car was an estate or MPV rather than 4x4

It’s all well and good saying everyone could be driving a Polo but anyone I know with a 4x4 has it because they need a big car. So if you banned SUVs, they would swap to a MPV or estate which are a similar weight and power

Yes but the point you and everyone else is missing is the bonnet line. Isn't that obvious?

If you put a Defender/Range Rover/Q7/XC90 alongside and estate (which is just a saloon with a bigger boot) it's clear that a child stands zero chance upon impact. That could be your child.

It's the combination of size and weight that's critical. And an estate will most definitely be less weight than an equivalent SUV.

PuttingDownRoots · 07/07/2023 07:43

A culture change is what needed. Instead if "biggest car we can afford" it should be "smallest car that fits our needs". It needs to be fashionable to have a small car.

Bingbangbongbash · 07/07/2023 07:49

tenbob · 07/07/2023 07:28

This is also not the first tragedy where a child has been killed by an SUV/4X4.

But you’ve still not been able to say how many of those would have been avoided if the car was an estate or MPV rather than 4x4

It’s all well and good saying everyone could be driving a Polo but anyone I know with a 4x4 has it because they need a big car. So if you banned SUVs, they would swap to a MPV or estate which are a similar weight and power

So much wrong here.

SUVs are, on average, a quarter heavier than equivalent estates / MPVs.

Their height is an additional factor - see earlier posts as to why this makes them so dangerous to other road users.

It’s ok if you don’t understand the science, but please listen to the many experts who agree that SUVs are a modern menace in our cities.

speluncean · 07/07/2023 07:49

@PuttingDownRoots I do agree with that - but I did that and ended up with a 4x4 because it's what works for me.

I still have to drive in and out of the city - how would that be mitigated?

And the current situation wrt blue badges is atrocious - how would that be reformed?

Zingys · 07/07/2023 07:52

No one needs a two tonne SUV in London.
its a status symbol.

Zingys · 07/07/2023 07:57

Plus a lot of women driving them cannot park or drive properly because of the size.

PuttingDownRoots · 07/07/2023 07:59

speluncean · 07/07/2023 07:49

@PuttingDownRoots I do agree with that - but I did that and ended up with a 4x4 because it's what works for me.

I still have to drive in and out of the city - how would that be mitigated?

And the current situation wrt blue badges is atrocious - how would that be reformed?

Thats the point though... there are people they do need bigger cars. We have one as we use it for towing, carry large equipment, coping with bad weather rurally etc. You need one for equipment too. We would be unfashionable but practical

But take the new Defender... its a style over substance thing. If it was unfashionable to own one, would the status symbol people buy them?

Bingbangbongbash · 07/07/2023 08:01

speluncean · 07/07/2023 07:49

@PuttingDownRoots I do agree with that - but I did that and ended up with a 4x4 because it's what works for me.

I still have to drive in and out of the city - how would that be mitigated?

And the current situation wrt blue badges is atrocious - how would that be reformed?

ideally there would be extra taxes on SUVs driven in cities. Then perhaps the equation for ‘smallest car practical’ would tip buyers like you into an estate or similar.

But it’s actually really hard for the average UK driver to choose anything but an SUV - choice is driven by the American markets and their stupid tax and standards loopholes for trucks (which SUVs are classed as - doesn’t that tell you everything you need to know); manufacturers make more money out of SUVs.

So all you SUV drivers aren’t just driving selfishly big cars, you’re also being done over by the OEMs.

speluncean · 07/07/2023 08:04

An estate car doesn't work for me. I can't get in and out of it (I tried lots of cars when I had to change mine)

bonfirebash · 07/07/2023 08:05

Florenz · 06/07/2023 22:56

Nobody NEEDS a car. Humanity managed perfectly well without them until 130 years ago or so.

What if there's no public transport?
To get to work I would have to go in the opposite direction into town, then back out of town, change buses and then walk
Would take me 2.5hrs to do 4 miles

Disabilities? There's also no bus to Aldi or Lidl despite Lidl being 1.5 miles away, again it's go into town and back out

My dentist is 35 mins away. That would be a bus, train and then taxi

It's like saying well nobody had a fridge years ago, no they didn't but they were able to shop every day

brunettemic · 07/07/2023 08:23

So if this had been a truck delivering food to the school would you ban food being delivered to schools in cities? The issue is the driver, not the car. A Defender isn’t THAT big compared to many vehicles on the road.

brunettemic · 07/07/2023 08:27

Florenz · 06/07/2023 22:56

Nobody NEEDS a car. Humanity managed perfectly well without them until 130 years ago or so.

We managed perfectly well without electricity, medicine etc too, shall we get rid of those as well? Of course people need cars, what a ridiculous statement.

sorrynotathome · 07/07/2023 08:32

Compare the size of cars today with 40 years ago (when I bought my first one) and you’ll see they are all huge now (the “Mini” being a case in point). Our need for safety & convenience in the metal box has created the monsters we all love. But our roads and parking spaces are the same size as they were before. No wonder there is congestion, rage and death on a daily basis.

Madamecastafiore · 07/07/2023 08:44

Zingys · 07/07/2023 07:57

Plus a lot of women driving them cannot park or drive properly because of the size.

Do shut up. What a load is sexiest claptrap. I bet more accidents are caused by men as a whole.

My husband has got out of our car before and asked me to park it because I am better at parking than he is.

Our huge 4x4, which can actually park itself and will brake for you whilst sounding an annoying alarm when just driving along the street if it senses a risk of collision, is safe for me. I chose it for my safety and am not going to choose to drive a feather weight car because some dick will hit me and I'll die, the chance of me being involved in a scenario like the one that happened yesterday is virtually nil so my behaviour is not going to change because of it.

MamaDollyorJesus · 07/07/2023 08:56

Florenz · 06/07/2023 22:56

Nobody NEEDS a car. Humanity managed perfectly well without them until 130 years ago or so.

The world was a very different place 130 years ago FFS!

My 66yo mum with mobility issues lives in a small village that even 30 years ago had a butchers, bakers, fruit shop, newsagent etc so she could take a 5 minute walk & pick up shopping but none of those exist now so she has to venture to the nearest big town to get her shopping - it's an hour on the bus with a bus every hour on weekdays & Saturdays, every 2 hours on a Sunday not to mention lugging her shopping back home on the bus! Or... I can pick her up & drive her there which takes 20mins & she can put her shopping in my boot. I know which one is not only more convenient but safer for my mother.

Even those without mobility issues who the fuck wants to spend half the day doing the food shop especially at the weekends when you've maybe worked full time all week.

SamanthaCaine · 07/07/2023 08:59

brunettemic · 07/07/2023 08:23

So if this had been a truck delivering food to the school would you ban food being delivered to schools in cities? The issue is the driver, not the car. A Defender isn’t THAT big compared to many vehicles on the road.

Give over. A Defender is huge.

But obviously you know that trucks have a defined purpose don't you? Also truck driver's are trained to handle heavy machinery.

A lady/lad that lunches only has one for an ego boost. And they can just jump in one without any prior training.

If I'd change anything it'd be additional driver training as a mandatory requirement. If you don't know how to handle 3 tonnes of death on wheels, you should only be allowed in a Fiat 500.

Oakbeam · 07/07/2023 09:06

I just checked and my estate car is TWO TONNES lighter than then defender involved in the accident (1.5 tonnes v 3.5).

The figure I am seeing for the current Defender 110 is 2,436Kg. So, less than one tonne heavier.

https://www.landrover.co.uk/defender/defender/specifications.html

Defender 2023 Specifications | Performance | Defender

Discover more about the important details of the Defender 2023, such as its performance figures, towing, and dimensions. Take a closer look.

https://www.landrover.co.uk/defender/defender/specifications.html

CheswickMarritron · 07/07/2023 09:06

@Trez1510 @TheFairyCaravan yes Dh does have a long torso, he doesn't buy tops from high street shops, has to get extra long ones same with shirts. He pretty much lives in sports shorts due to the size of his thighs. I did forget to put in my original post that he is not 11 stone dripping wet, he played rugby and is built like England rugby player Ellis Genge, same body style and weight so to get a comfortable driving position when you are built like that is more difficult in some cars. After injuring his knee playing sport and having it operated on, comfort when driving is essential. I don't want him going back to limping. I really wish money was no object and that he could just choose a car and buy it but that isn't the case.

Any car I buy has to have a height adjustable passenger seat just so he can fit in it. But I am only 5'4" so I can fit in anything but need a non-sloping roofline in the back seats for the kids who are late teens. He is waiting a few years and will trade the SUV for an electric car but right now if something goes wrong with electric cars it is hard to get the parts to fix it. Our mate's car was in the garage for 5 months whilst they waited for a part to come in. That was a Ford.

brunettemic · 07/07/2023 09:11

SamanthaCaine · 07/07/2023 08:59

Give over. A Defender is huge.

But obviously you know that trucks have a defined purpose don't you? Also truck driver's are trained to handle heavy machinery.

A lady/lad that lunches only has one for an ego boost. And they can just jump in one without any prior training.

If I'd change anything it'd be additional driver training as a mandatory requirement. If you don't know how to handle 3 tonnes of death on wheels, you should only be allowed in a Fiat 500.

Show quote history

You missed the key part…”compared to many vehicles on the road”. A Defender is big (just over 2.1 tonnes) but there are plenty of bigger and heavier vehicles. That Audi e-tron that loads of people have weighs more for example. It’s nearly half a tonne heavier than a Defender at 2.5 something tonnes.

There are plenty of “standard” cars that are bigger and heavier, plus all the other vehicles.

loudbatperson · 07/07/2023 09:15

Retrain12345 · 06/07/2023 16:56

They already are bringing in huge fines in the form of ULEZ which should reduce a few.

I have two big cars but I do need them
and won’t be persuaded to give them up for anything!

The SUVs/4x4s built since 2016 meet the ULEZ standard so do not have to pay the charge.

BiancaBlank · 07/07/2023 09:16

It’s not just the weight. 4x4s are higher so if they hit someone the impact is higher up the body. A smaller car hits the legs first which is less likely to be fatal. (Learned this on driver awareness course)

Retrain12345 · 07/07/2023 09:23

@loudbatperson unfortunately both of my cars are old because I can’t afford new ones so are not exempt. I expect many are in the same boat.