To think the law needs to change on 4x4s and Supersized SUVs in Cities.

[JustMint]

Unsure how, but today's news is just horrifying, these vehicles really need to be reduced in numbers in residential areas in my opinion. They are significantly heavier than smaller cars (I know that's stating the obvious) but who really needs a 4X4 in a city?

Doesn’t matter what you think. It matters what physics says. And physics says ‘more mass = more energy’. And it matters what biology says. Biology says ‘more energy into people = more injuries’.

I don’t even understand your pedal point. Manual cars have brakes, too.

Regarding needing space as a reason for SUVs. My very tall DH and son both fit in my Honda Jazz easily. It's also perfect for me as it has a slightly raised height and my wheelchair fits in the boot. It has more space inside than many SUVs.

It is not the 4-wheel drive that is the problem.

1050kg - Fiat Panda Wild
1440kg - Mini Cooper SE
1700kg - Typical Ford Transit (empty)
3000kg - Typical Ford Transit (fully loaded)

The Panda is a 4x4 which is advertised as, and is widely regarded as a "city car". The electric Mini is 37% heavier.

Then again, the elderly pedestrian killed recently in West London was hit by a met police BMW weighing only 259kg.

Perhaps as vehicles with internal combustion engines decline and electric vehicles take over, city driving can be charged according to vehicle weight at around 1p/kg/day

I’m extremely skeptical that a police car weighs only 250kg. Are you sure? And yes, it’s not just the weight, it’s the height & body shape.

No for everyone it cannot be written off as a business expense, therefore you are expecting people to be financially penalised.

I picked a Tesla as it is probably the only EV I know off, living in a very rural area, EV are not high on my list of things I know about - I looked up the weight of one v a LR Defender - yet even the type of EV I choose to talk about is somehow wrong!

I am the type of person who tries to look at a situation in anything but black and white, there is a need for certain types of cars, I think that is agreed on this thread, but to restrict those cars to a certain defined user is not the best way to ensure less accidents. Who decides who can drive them? Some person sitting in an office in a town, or a computer?

Any type of scheme implemented would cost financially and I do not think it would reduce any accidents.

All cars now are built far more "rounded" (I cannot think of a better work to describe it) in order to mitigate accidents with pedestrians, and I presume anything they hit - if they were inherently dangerous they would not pass the safety tests.

There will always be people who do not want to see certain cars in towns, I think this is what it comes down to.

What gets me is the people who wonder why their children have severe neurological deficits, then proceed ro bundle them into cars of that size. I'm not sure what happened hun, could it be the massive amounts of neurotoxic waste spewed by your car alone, let alone the others? Thick as fuck, this population

What's the make of car got to do with anything , this woman could have crashed in any size vehicle . Some reports say she had a medical emergency so no car would have stopped the crash

Now think hard ....... which of those is going to spew out more harmful emissions?

I'd still rather take my chances with a fiat 500 VS a defender. Whether that's just a straight up running over, being knocked off my bike or whatever.

I say this as someone who was hit by a fiesta at about 35mph and walked away. If it had been a higher vehicle I don't think the crash would have gone like it did

A Fiat 500 weighs 980kg I doubt a BMW police car will weight 259kg.

Bicyles have killed pedestrians - they weigh considerably less than cars.

I think there should be changes in the law. Anything to make the manufacturers change their patterns. It is basically impossible to buy anything else if you have a bigger family or need space. Most of the manufacturers are retiring their old Estate type vehicles or converting them to "SUV Style".

We had a friend killed by one of these as well. When I came across the model later by chance it shocked me how gigantic it was. But we drive one. (Not that big, but still unnecessarily big). Because we didn't have a huge amount of choice. And yes, maybe I could ideologically insist and at great cost/inconvenience choose something different but that isn't going to make a huge amount of difference if 90% of what is being offered to anyone in our situation is an SUV!

Apparently it all comes from the US because SUVs are classed as "light trucks" so don't have to have the same safety features (which are expensive) as passenger vehicles. Even when they are equipped with passenger space, they are technically not classed as passenger vehicles. So they have gained popularity over there and that trend is crossing over to Europe. I don't think the same exceptions apply here, so I don't really know why.

Um, I don't think cars cause autism.

How do you pretend to fit in , you either do or you don't .

Yes you are 100% right and knee jerk reactions to ban certain cars will not stop it happening again.

Good luck with the upcoming tube strikes . 5 days isn't it . Let's hope the busses are not filled to capacity

Actual farmers have tractors. They don't need these "Chelsea tractors".

Well thank fuck you aren’t in charge of road safety. I don’t have the patience to explain how laws are determined, but suffice to say, lots of clever people accumulate knowledge and evidence, then make a plan.

As has been pointed out over and over again, weight is not the only factor - height / shape plays an important part. But weight is important and a bigger car weighs more. A bigger electric car needs a bigger battery to power it, so weighs even more than a smaller EV. Get it?

As for safety tests - the majority of safety tests are looking at occupants inside the car, not other road users. Thankfully this is changing, and there is a greater push for active technologies like AEB, collision avoidance and the like that prevent or mitigate the severity of incidents, rather than passive safety features like airbags and crumple zones that simply try to reduce the effect of an incident.

I don’t really understand why you’re so interested in this - you live rurally so don’t see the damage SUV ownership is doing to our cities. I have live both rurally (when I drove a LR for towing) and now in a big city, so appreciate both sides.

People who commute in London daily are pretty used to finding alternative means. Most people can't go out and buy a car to cover the week the tubes or trains are shafted.

The strikes have been extensive but I've still got to work every day on time, there are buses, bikes, taxis, trains, overground, feet

Absolutely agree.

They are huge. Car spaces are not built for them every where they block and annoy

Vanishingly few people have been killed by bikes. Thousands die every year because of cars.

This thread proves only one thing. It's all about the what about me crowd.

Unless their child or family member is killed or seriously hurt by one of these vehicles., they don't give a damn. I really hope if anything positive comes from this it's that road safety campaigners are given a voice loud and clear. And maybe the government will be forced to act.

100% wrong. Have a look at AEB. Soon all cars will have levels of driver monitoring that can be used to stop vehicles in the event of medical issues with the driver. Except loads of dim twits will turn the safety features off like the ‘I hate lane keeping’ idiots on MN

I agree with you, OP. Too many rich entitled twats driving these massive vehicles far too fast and extremely badly in certain areas of London, with scant consideration for other road users and people sharing the same space. Whatever people may say on here, it is a noticeable feature of certain areas.

At the very least, there ought to be a half mile exclusion zone around all urban schools to safeguard children from these giant tanks. They may keep those inside safe but they're lethal to everyone else. People may think twice about driving them if they have to get out half a mile away and walk their children the rest of the way to school.

@schloss @Bingbangbongbash
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4803894-escort-police-knock-down-80-yr-old-woman

Met Police BMW R1200rt (259kg)

I’m no Clarkson, but that’s a motorbike not a car.