To think they shouldn’t close 1,000 rail ticket offices?

[TiredArse]

Latest plan to ‘improve’ the railways. Up to 1,000 will close.

We’ll be left with those shitty, self service machines that are a pain to use on a good day. Got a disability or struggle to use a machine? Tough shit. Got a query? Tough shit.

Does anyone actually believe that the money saved will reduce fares or improve services?

You can fill in the consultation form here - not easy to see, you have to click on the words ‘consultation response form’. https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/train-station-ticket-office-consultation/

Ticket offices being open are vital for my husband, due to his disability he cannot use the machines to buy or retrieve tickets, he can’t put his ticket in the little slot that reads it and opens the barrier, he can’t hold his phone in a position that enables him to scan an e-ticket to open the barriers. Without ticket office staff he can’t actually enter any platforms, so he would have to just stand and wait until one happened to walk by the entrance.

They’ll have to do away with ticket barriers if they’re going to get rid of full time staff in stations.

since the office closed (not officially - the guy that worked in it retired during lockdown and just hasn’t been replaced ‘yet’ apparently) the ticket barriers at our local station have just had to be left permanently open.

We both wanted to fill in the consultation as we know that MIL (deceased this year) would have been unable to use ticket machines (she couldn’t use ATMs, basic mobile phones never mind smart phones, computers; or even a new microwave) and DD1 has learning disabilities. DM is visually impaired and can’t see Kindles, self service till screens, computer screens, etc.

We live outside London, so clicked on the link for outside London. We could not find our station on the list. We realised, it counted as a station within London. We went back to the first page and clicked on the link for London. A list of train lines came up. Our train line is owned by one company; but the line has a different name. We clicked on what we assumed is our line’s new name; and were taken to an email address. We were told to email our views.

I don’t have learning disabilities, so can only imagine what it’s like; but it seemed to us the whole consultation was designed to be impenetrable to anybody but reasonably bright, computer savvy people - who would have no problems operating ticket machines and would therefore agree to the closure of ticket offices.

There was no Easy Read information nor Easy Read questionnaire; as I imagine some people with LD could answer questions with answers in short chunks, where they might struggle to structure all their views in a free form email?

We considered the whole consultation to be discriminatory and in breach of The Equality Act?

If people cannot operate a ticket machine, how are they going to get on the platform to access help from the staff? If a person on crutches needs special assistance, say to carry their suitcase, how are they going to get that help after being dropped off by a taxi outside the station?

Would there be staff on every platform?
Our station has a car park either side. If a frail or disabled person or mother with a buggy) can only find a space in the car park on platform 4 side, do they face having to go up and down the stairs twice to get over the railway bridge to platform 1, if the only member of staff is there and then back again (especially when the lift is broken)?

We all know the number of staff on the stations will be cut!

There is no chance any cost savings will be passed on to rail users and I'm surprised anyone would think otherwise given the governments' performance over the years. Did you notice a reduction in your costs when supermarkets moved towards self service? An increase in your savings rate as banks moved more towards online and/or self service machines?

I wonder how disabled people manage in other countries. When I am in Germany there seem to be more people with visible disabilities using the trains than in the UK and I wonder how they manage to buy tickets when many stations there don't have ticket offices (and quite impenetrable ticket machines). Not sure if they can do more online than we can - they certainly had e-tickets years/decades before we did.

Same in Australia - back in 2009 the stations in Perth didn't have ticket offices and often only took notes of a certain denomination so if you didn't have the right note or card, tough. There were ticket barriers.

Well quite, it all goes to shareholders.

As for the Equality Act issues, goodness knows how this complies. Ditto moving to apps to pay for car parking.

None of our local stations have manned ticket offices anymore anyway. People seem to cope absolutely fine. Our nearest small village station must have lost it's ticket office in the 80s, and the other two (small towns) maybe in the noughties. People buy tickets at the machines or from the guard on the train.

Yes, a small minority, and they will almost certainly become available online or from machines in due course. Just because they have to be bought at a ticket office today, doesn't mean that won't ever change. Just a simple programming change to the ticketing system and hey-presto!

But even ticket machines will probably be obsolete in, say, a decade's time, as you can already buy tickets online and just show your phone screen to the guard, so paper tickets themselves will soon be obsolete.

"If people cannot operate a ticket machine, how are they going to get on the platform to access help from the staff? If a person on crutches needs special assistance, say to carry their suitcase, how are they going to get that help after being dropped off by a taxi outside the station?"

I've argued this. Apparently, there will be staff hanging around the ticket machines.

Some people have said there'd be staff on the platform. But as a visually impaired person I don't want to be wandering around a station trying to find someone. If I can't find anyone at the gate, I'll go (and have been told to by Transport for Wales) to the ticket office.

But how does someone in a ticket office booth help someone being dropped off in a taxi? They don't lock up and come out to help now, do they? Especially when there's only one person in the ticket office. They won't even know that someone's just been dropped off in a taxi.

Yes? I don’t know about where you are but at my local one-man station, he sticks up a card saying ‘back soon’ and goes to help.

At larger stations, the ticket office person uses a radio to summons assistance. I accept that doesn’t get someone from the taxi drop off to the ticket office but it solves the other problems.

But how does someone in a ticket office booth help someone being dropped off in a taxi? They don't lock up and come out to help now, do they? Especially when there's only one person in the ticket office. They won't even know that someone's just been dropped off in a taxi.

I have never used special assistance myself, but the family used to book it for MIL when she travelled by train to see us; and booked a taxi from her home to the station for her. Most taxis drop people off right outside the main entrance. I'd leave my suitcase where it was, go inside to the ticket office, which is usually just inside the main entrance and ask the ticket office staff for the special assistance, I'd already booked. At our local station, that would mean a walk of approximately eight feet from where the taxi drops you, to the ticket station staff. If the ticket staff were instead deployed to the platforms, how would MIL have got through the ticket barriers, bearing in mind she couldn't use an ATM, never mind a ticket machine; to ask for special assistance from the staff on the platform?

I don't know about Australia but continental Europe is a long way behind us in many locations regarding access for all on trains. There are European Technical Standards for Interoperability covering Persons with Restricted Mobility but they only apply to new trains, whereas in the UK anything non-compliant had to be withdrawn by the end of 2020.

In Germany there are still many stations with ticket offices, in towns as well as cities. In rural areas they sometimes provide the Ticket Vending Machine onboard the train, where the conductor can help you use it. Fare evasion is rife in Germany. These days of course there is a Deutschland-ticket giving unlimited regional travel for €49/month so people don't need to buy tickets unless they are travelling on ICEs. Can you really see the UK government offering unlimited travel for £49/month?

The other thing with Germany is that they don't generally have the absurdly complex ticketing system we've got. Between Manchester Airport and Manchester there are nearly two dozen types of ticket you could choose from (not counting Advances). How is a foreign tourist supposed to get the right one out of the machine? Even the natives struggle.

Well sort that out first, before you start removing staff. Put the horse in front of the cart.

They do pull the blind down to go out and assist passengers. In some locations that's the only way that a wheelchair user can get to the other platform because the footbridge isn't accessible and they have to be escorted across the track. At single-manned stations it is the booking office clerk who provides this assistance.

How much help do you think Northern's "Journey Makers" will be if they only visit for two hours a day?

Response is out - ticket office closures are not going to happen (for now)

Train station ticket office consultation - Transport Focus

We heavily rely on ticket office. Machines don’t recognise carer discounts and take cash . Often the ticket offices are substantially cheaper fairs whereas the machines and train line are useless
My friends son who has DS has been greatly helped by ticket staff without them many disabled people will be unable to use trains.
But that is the ConPartys intention .

Ticket offices probably were never going to be closed in large numbers, it was possibly done so the Tories could claim to have listened, and in any case many were in marginal Tory seats. Or if it was the intention, it was to reduce numbers of people in the RMT and other rail unions.

What may happen is that they have reduced hours, and if a staff member is unexpectedly absent, be closed on a particular day.

Our touch screen machines often don't work. I had a bruised fingertip after bashing it so hard to actually make it give me a bloody ticket. The woman at our station is a bit of a grumpy mare but at least you can get a ticket and some advice.

It will really disadvantage disabled people, something all those on thread who just want cheap fares ( which won't happen btw) clearly don't give a toss about.

For the avoidance of doubt, this was the government's idea. They made the rail companies do the consultation. They received 750,000 responses and have had to back down.

People want ticket offices and they want staffed stations.

I'm delighted that this ridiculous proposal has been kicked out the door. it would have severely hampered the ability of so many disabled/elderly/ vulnerable people's to go about their day to day lives. What has really pissed me off is how the majority of people just don't give a toss about these groups; made apparent by lots of ' who needs a ticket office , pay on your phone ', 'use your card on the self service machine ', 'oh don't worry about no ticket staff being available for help, just ask anyone ' blah blah . Do people realise that not everyone can do these things?? What about the elderly person who has never used a debit card in their life and who relies on cash payments ? Or the visually impaired person who requires assistance with getting to the platform? Or the young teenage girl who is reassured by the consistent presence of a member of staff when travelling alone at night? I could go on. This smacks of the ' as long as I'm alright jack' attitude which prevails nowadays. When will people start thinking of others?

Yes absolutely. Tory policy, tried and tried to force it through.

Glad they've admitted defeat.

Tories are on a 'limit the losses' strategy now for the next year. There's no point in having this fight now.

The ticket machines are horrendous if you're not local. The last one I used at an airport had 6 different options to go from the airport to the city, only one of which would have been valid on the next train leaving and no indication of which one that was! Without local knowledge of routes, peak hours and operators they're impossible without someone explaining. My English is good but I had to get a member of staff to explain which I wanted. God help anyone who doesn't speak good English

Thank you to everyone who signed petitions, responded to consultations and contacted their MPs

Oh and dear Wera Hobhouse: maybe, just maybe, the 10% of people who need to buy tickets using ticket offices are actually the 'most vulnerable minority', not the blue-haired demo-enfants with their iPhones that you spend all your time championing?