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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if anyone else feels like the covid era is a bad dream

545 replies

23rMarch2020 · 04/07/2023 12:41

Whenever I think of 2020 or 2021 it just doesn’t feel real at all. The lockdowns for months on end, the clapping for the NHS, the track and trace system, entire school years being sent home because a single case was discovered, panic buying, people developing intricate methods of sanitising their shopping, public shaming of rule breakers, religious holidays being stopped at very short notice. It’s all so bizarre to think of that this was in our country so recently and, really, there’s nothing to stop any of it happening again. In so many ways it just feels like a different world, my DS who had his GCSE’s cancelled is about to go off to uni (if he gets the grades 🤞) and my then little year 7 DD is doing her own GCSE’s next year. I guess my Aibu is to ask if anyone else feels so totally disconnected from that era to the extent it’s all like a bad dream?

OP posts:
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Delatron · 07/07/2023 13:30

OwlHop · 07/07/2023 12:50

@Delatron not sure why you keep misreading/misrepresenting what’s being said. If someone dies ten months after having a Covid infection of a stroke, is Covid infection or stroke listed as immediate cause of death?

But now please consider that the Covid infection itself increased the risk of heart attack and stroke in the year following infection. Which means sadly, some excess deaths from cardiovascular events will be linked to an earlier Covid infection. This isn’t controversial.

Now look at the excess death figures in the context of this. Consider the impact of poverty, NHS pressure, lockdown MH trauma as well. But please factor in the well-known fact that Covid infection itself is a proven risk factor. Yes, even for at least a whole year after the person isn’t testing positive.

If you will not even contemplate this, then it’s clear you are refusing to consider the impact of a virus which has infected millions and causes cardiovascular damage (and multi-organ systemic silent damage) other than during the days or weeks of initial acute infection.
This is telling.

I literally linked to the British Heart Foundation who wrote about 100k excess deaths and I ringed the part where they said

“But while deaths from Covid-19 have since fallen year-on-year, the number of deaths involving cardiovascular disease have remained high above expected levels

We believe that there are now other major factors likely driving the continued increase in excess deaths involving cardiovascular disease, including the severe, ongoing disruption to NHS heart care, and Covid-19 increasing the risk of heart attack and stroke.”

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2023/june/100000-excess-deaths-cardiovascular-disease

I also linked one of the definitive studies on the effect of Covid on the body after the initial infection upthread too.

Very odd that you will only consider lockdowns and NHS pressure as involved in excess death but not the virus which infected millions and is known to increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes months and years after the initial infection. Yes, even in the young. A small percentage of a large number of people is still a significant number.

Of course at no point did I say 000s of young people were dropping dead each month from Covid infections. Please stop using hyperbole and straw men. What I said is excess deaths are up including 20-44 cohort, which you can see for yourself.

I supplied info re Covid affects on the body inc heightened cardiovascular risks in the months and years after infections, (as well as considering lockdown & NHS pressure). Plenty of other people on the thread have shared their devastating experiences with long Covid and tragic bereavement.

Teenager does indeed go to school. He masks inside. He chooses to. So does his best friend, the one with the mom having chemo who is CVE. There is no worry, no constant risk evaluation, it’s like putting on a seatbelt: on and done, barely notice.

I notice you won’t apparently consider that families might want to protect a CV member. Why not? I’ve pointed out 16,000 young people were orphaned earlier in thread. No reaction from you about that either.

The kids don’t mask at home, outside, at recess, or at the skate park or when hanging out in each other’s houses. In lots of countries, kids masked inside and some continue to do when protecting themselves or others. We are all vaccinated and boosted as well (so hardly zero immunity) but still taking steps to avoid infection whilst getting on with our lives. As I’ve explained; we have friends now disabled by Covid.

Perhaps you are an anti masker who doesn’t like to see people wearing masks because it upsets you? You are perhaps very invested in believing you and your family are going to be ok and you’ve suffered enough? Understandable belief.

That’s the only reason I can think of for why you’re so upset about other people choosing to use ffp as a protective tool in 2023. I can’t believe that you’re super mad that I don’t eat inside restaurants; plenty of other people don’t eat out either, for all sorts of reasons, and everything else - travel, arts, etc we can easily do wearing a respirator.

There’s a final part of this which is the publishing of ventilation levels using CO2 levels as proxy which Japan and Korea do which allows citizens to make more informed choices about eating inside, because they can assess risk (also better data on current infection levels). Using a CO2 monitor allows people to check ventilation levels inside. One of the reasons the Covid-aware/CV/Long Covid/disability community continues to advocate for clean air which greatly reduces risks.

Lockdown, living through Covid was undeniably traumatic and this thread is a testament to that.
Its not 2019 anymore. Life has changed, and lives, health, businesses, NHS, trust in institutions, have been lost, or badly damaged. I can totally see why people want to “go back to normal”. There are people who can’t, because they are suffering from long Covid and there are people who are dead. And there are people who want to resist the message that infection is inevitable and even good

I like to deal with scientific facts and realistic risk assessments.

The fact that some people may suffer complications after Covid is a fact. Just like people suffer complications after pneumonia, flu, chicken pox, glandular fever. One in 2 of us will get cancer… Why would I worry about Covid more than flu?

I get it, you are terrified of getting Covid. I have had it 3 times and it was no worse than a cold for me and everyone I know. I am very thankful that appears to be the case for me. And I know there’s lots we don’t know about why some people are more affected than others.

For me it’s just another illness our body has to deal with from time to time. I take no precautions and I’m rarely ill. My child hasn’t had a day off school ill in 5 years.

I don’t want to go around in circles here. But you haven’t shown me any scientific evidence that means I feel I need to limit my life because of Covid.

WestwardHo1 · 08/07/2023 15:53

Personally I ran out of fucks long ago.

And I'm very far from the only one.

StormShadow · 09/07/2023 20:17

That's just awful.

JenniferBooth · 09/07/2023 20:23

Agree @StormShadow The hypocrisy is off the charts

MyOtherNameToday · 10/07/2023 13:38

Delatron · 06/07/2023 21:09

I know a lot of people. I don’t know any with long Covid. I’m not denying it exists. And it sounds bloody awful but it’s not 1 in 10, I’m guessing the definition and symptoms are a bit blurry and ill defined. We forget that many viruses cause post-viral syndrome. Post- viral fatigue is a real thing with many viruses.

Glandular fever for example can cause issues for 1 year plus.

Glandular fever can cause issues for significantly longer than a year and is now known to be the major trigger virus for multiple sclerosis. Around 1 in 10 have significant problems afterwards, especially those infected as adults.

I suspect this will also prove to be the case for a percentage of people with 'long covid' - they likely now have autoimmune disease of one type or another, not just 'post-viral fatigue'. In my case, glandular fever caused MS which went undiagnosed for many years until covid caused several rapid MS relapses. For a friend covid triggered rheumatoid arthritis.

There may well be an underlying genetic basis to it all which is as yet unknown but the truth is many people have been left injured by Covid and a significant number of people won't even know it yet. I understand that people want to get on with their lives (I do too) but I am seriously concerned at how careless people are being about Covid now and its capacity to cause injury. Much of this injury may only become apparent down the line.

Delatron · 10/07/2023 14:55

MyOtherNameToday · 10/07/2023 13:38

Glandular fever can cause issues for significantly longer than a year and is now known to be the major trigger virus for multiple sclerosis. Around 1 in 10 have significant problems afterwards, especially those infected as adults.

I suspect this will also prove to be the case for a percentage of people with 'long covid' - they likely now have autoimmune disease of one type or another, not just 'post-viral fatigue'. In my case, glandular fever caused MS which went undiagnosed for many years until covid caused several rapid MS relapses. For a friend covid triggered rheumatoid arthritis.

There may well be an underlying genetic basis to it all which is as yet unknown but the truth is many people have been left injured by Covid and a significant number of people won't even know it yet. I understand that people want to get on with their lives (I do too) but I am seriously concerned at how careless people are being about Covid now and its capacity to cause injury. Much of this injury may only become apparent down the line.

Sorry your post is a bit contradictory- if many viruses cause issues for many years afterwards, as you quite rightly have said. Why is it more of an issue for people to be ‘careless’ about Covid, versus careless about getting glandular fever or the flu? Especially for people who have seen that for them flu causes far more serious issues than Covid?

There clearly is a genetic element to how seriously people suffer from Covid.. Hence the shocking stories about members of the same family dying.

I’m interested, beyond basic hygiene and keeping a strong healthy immune system - keeping weight down, exercising, making sure vitamin D levels are optimal, how one can be less ‘careless’ with Covid? And why do we not apply this to all diseases/illnesses? Are are we? And then what impact is that having on people living their lives?

It hasn’t escaped my notice that those who seem to either avoid Covid or get a
mild dose are conversely those who kept working on the front line during lockdowns. Who were not shut away..Not always but it surprises me the number who must have been exposed continually yet remained symptom free or had a mild dose

Abbimae · 10/07/2023 14:56

The bad dream is only going to get worse given what it’s done to peoples health in the long term. Worst is yet to come

Delatron · 10/07/2023 14:59

The truth is if millions of people were infected with glandular fever, flu or Lyme disease all at the same time we would see the same percentage of people suffering long term issues. It’s a feature of viruses and the numbers seen are due to it being a novel virus and therefore infecting a huge proportion of the population in a short time frame.

Therefore, as the numbers settle down. As we are seeing. I believe we’ll see less issues.

And that is why for me Covid is less of an issue than something like flu which I find to be more severe.

StormShadow · 10/07/2023 15:28

I understand that people want to get on with their lives (I do too) but I am seriously concerned at how careless people are being about Covid now and its capacity to cause injury.

I think it's just that people are in most cases balancing the known negative of missing out on various things (obv some people don't experience it as missing out) against a 'might'. Because that's really all it is. I accept that long covid exists, post viral health problems are a definite thing and with a virus as widespread as covid it'd be a surprise if there weren't some people with longstanding effects. The rest is just stuff people think might happen.

The flipside to that is that there are going to be some people who in their attempts to avoid covid are missing out on things they would otherwise want to do, who either wouldn't experience the negatives you mention because your suspicions are incorrect, or because you're right but it wouldn't happen to them. You're not factoring them into your analysis.

For the most part, I think the best bet is to trust that people have different priorities that you the observer don't necessarily understand. That goes for people who make the opposite argument to you as well.

eggsbenedict23 · 10/07/2023 15:30

I didn't fly at all during COVID.

I've been wondering how mask exemptions worked for flights.

StormShadow · 10/07/2023 15:35

eggsbenedict23 · 10/07/2023 15:30

I didn't fly at all during COVID.

I've been wondering how mask exemptions worked for flights.

Couldn't tell you that, but I did fly and I noticed people took a looooooong time eating and drinking.

Flittermice · 10/07/2023 15:53

Really interesting thread. My partner has a rare neurological condition which got markedly and unexpectedly worse after he got covid, to the extent that he can now no longer do things that he could do before he got covid. I am certain that there is a connection and that there is a lot we still don't understand. it is not "just a cold".

StormShadow · 10/07/2023 16:12

I always think the comparisons to colds and flu are utterly pointless anyway. Both of those are viruses that can be fatal, asymptomatic or anything inbetween. Which yes, is also true of covid, but the point is it's meaningless as a description of the severity of symptoms.

Delatron · 10/07/2023 16:59

StormShadow · 10/07/2023 16:12

I always think the comparisons to colds and flu are utterly pointless anyway. Both of those are viruses that can be fatal, asymptomatic or anything inbetween. Which yes, is also true of covid, but the point is it's meaningless as a description of the severity of symptoms.

On the whole symptomatic colds are milder than symptomatic flu. Yes severity of symptoms vary but more people die of flu than colds. That’s the point of the comparison.

Colds are in general a mild illness which you get over quickly. Unless you develop a secondary infection or are immuno compromised.

OwlHop · 10/07/2023 17:45

Pre-print but looks promising. Long Covid gene 🧬 found

In a pre-print study released last week, The COVID-19 Host Genetics Initiative (HGI) made the astonishing announcement that they’ve identified a gene mutation common in people with Long Covid that isn’t common in people without Long Covid.
The study, called “Genome-Wide Association Study of Long Covid,” analyzed the genes of 6,450 Long Covid patients and 1,093,995 population controls (people without Long Covid) from 24 studies across 16 countries.

more in link

https://longishmagazine.substack.com/p/scientists-discover-long-covid-gene

LONG COVID GENE FOUND

We Untangle What It Means

https://longishmagazine.substack.com/p/scientists-discover-long-covid-gene

StormShadow · 10/07/2023 17:55

Delatron · 10/07/2023 16:59

On the whole symptomatic colds are milder than symptomatic flu. Yes severity of symptoms vary but more people die of flu than colds. That’s the point of the comparison.

Colds are in general a mild illness which you get over quickly. Unless you develop a secondary infection or are immuno compromised.

The use of 'symptomatic' and 'in general' are why the comparisons to covid don't mean anything much, and they certainly don't deserve the amount of time that seems to get devoted to arguing over whether covid is or isn't akin to flu or colds.

I think it stems from those being most people's frame of reference for viruses. Which is sort of understandable, but even then people will persist in using flu/flu like as a description of severity. Think how often that old and totally incorrect claim about it not being flu if you wouldn't get out of bed for a £50 note gets trotted out on here.

NotTerfNorCis · 16/10/2023 07:57

Removing - meant to post to https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4920763-to-find-the-early-covid-era-nostalgic

LadyChilli · 16/10/2023 08:16

It was horrific. As a single parent I used to get up at 3am to try to get some work done before my then 6 YO got up for the day and we faced the horror of home school. Impossible to work while trying to encourage a 6 year old with ADHD to do school work but still the expectation that I'd join 8 hours or more of Teams calls per day. Producing endless meals and snacks on a single shopping hastily grabbed from the local Co-op once a week. Entertaining a restless child on minimal fresh air.

The clapping was mental with hindsight but strangely comforting at the time to remember there were other humans in the same situation, utterly isolated. I ended up on anti depressants and my BMI dropped to 17 as I was too depressed to eat.

We did it because we were told that going out would kill vulnerable people and it makes me furious that people with the benefit of hindsight gloat about how stupid we were for complying. We didn't know then what we know now. I wouldn't do it again though. The long term effects still run through the lives of my family, from behaviour in my DS to the acceleration of one parent's dementia and the other's loss of mobility from staying home for the best part of 2 years. We're in the west of Scotland and were under stricter restrictions than anywhere else for a lot of the time.

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