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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if anyone else feels like the covid era is a bad dream

545 replies

23rMarch2020 · 04/07/2023 12:41

Whenever I think of 2020 or 2021 it just doesn’t feel real at all. The lockdowns for months on end, the clapping for the NHS, the track and trace system, entire school years being sent home because a single case was discovered, panic buying, people developing intricate methods of sanitising their shopping, public shaming of rule breakers, religious holidays being stopped at very short notice. It’s all so bizarre to think of that this was in our country so recently and, really, there’s nothing to stop any of it happening again. In so many ways it just feels like a different world, my DS who had his GCSE’s cancelled is about to go off to uni (if he gets the grades 🤞) and my then little year 7 DD is doing her own GCSE’s next year. I guess my Aibu is to ask if anyone else feels so totally disconnected from that era to the extent it’s all like a bad dream?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
SunnyEgg · 06/07/2023 20:52

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 20:51

Here is the head of WHO on 23 April 2023 explaining that one in ten infections leads to Long Covid/Post Covid condition suggesting that hundreds of millions will need long term care. Don’t look up! 🙃

https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing---26-april-2023

Oh god that don’t look up phrase.

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 21:07

I’ve already explained that I’m not living in fear (yawn at this tired trope). I’ve assessed risks & recalibrated, I’ll see you in the beer garden. I’ll see you at the art gallery. I’ll take my kid to the skatepark, we hang out with friends. We are all gratefully healthy & having a nice life, thankfully. Nobody in Japan is scared of wearing a good mask when it helps and nor need you be. They are just a useful tool. Not the loose cloth surgical ones, but light N95 respirators actually work. We use Aura 9205 made by 3M.

Covid isn’t flu, as has been explained many times and the initial “mild” infection isn’t the end of it (see other viruses like HIV for similar). Covid acts as a force multiplier for any issues you already have or are genetically predisposed to, Covid does affect young people, there is no benefit to getting it over and over, herd immunity isn’t a thing.

Covid being allowed to spread as if it’s a cold is a mass-disabling event. The fact that you don’t see folk with Long Covid in the pub is not surprising. They exist; some have written heartbreakingly on this very thread. They are at home, struggling. There are more and more people felled by this virus every year.

And anecdote isn’t data. So look to the data. Excess deaths are up 1000 a week in the UK this year, that’s not normal. There is a climb in the 20-44 age range excess deaths.

Lockdown was grim and traumatic but in the desire for it all to go away, I think society is fucking up, instead of facing up to reality. Understandable, but unhelpful. Of course politicians and the media want you to keep spending. They need revenue/ad revenue.

you know who are taking notice of the societal and economic cost of the current mass repeat infections strategy? Insurers. Actuaries. The business & economic press.
They are worried, as they should be.

This post-lockdown la la la it’s going away one day stage is unfortunate but here we are. The next stage will arrive soon enough. And I’m sorry for what it will bring.

Delatron · 06/07/2023 21:09

I know a lot of people. I don’t know any with long Covid. I’m not denying it exists. And it sounds bloody awful but it’s not 1 in 10, I’m guessing the definition and symptoms are a bit blurry and ill defined. We forget that many viruses cause post-viral syndrome. Post- viral fatigue is a real thing with many viruses.

Glandular fever for example can cause issues for 1 year plus.

StormShadow · 06/07/2023 21:15

If the WHO head was using a similar definition to the one the ONS have, I'm honestly amazed it's as low as 1 in 10.

Delatron · 06/07/2023 21:16

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 21:07

I’ve already explained that I’m not living in fear (yawn at this tired trope). I’ve assessed risks & recalibrated, I’ll see you in the beer garden. I’ll see you at the art gallery. I’ll take my kid to the skatepark, we hang out with friends. We are all gratefully healthy & having a nice life, thankfully. Nobody in Japan is scared of wearing a good mask when it helps and nor need you be. They are just a useful tool. Not the loose cloth surgical ones, but light N95 respirators actually work. We use Aura 9205 made by 3M.

Covid isn’t flu, as has been explained many times and the initial “mild” infection isn’t the end of it (see other viruses like HIV for similar). Covid acts as a force multiplier for any issues you already have or are genetically predisposed to, Covid does affect young people, there is no benefit to getting it over and over, herd immunity isn’t a thing.

Covid being allowed to spread as if it’s a cold is a mass-disabling event. The fact that you don’t see folk with Long Covid in the pub is not surprising. They exist; some have written heartbreakingly on this very thread. They are at home, struggling. There are more and more people felled by this virus every year.

And anecdote isn’t data. So look to the data. Excess deaths are up 1000 a week in the UK this year, that’s not normal. There is a climb in the 20-44 age range excess deaths.

Lockdown was grim and traumatic but in the desire for it all to go away, I think society is fucking up, instead of facing up to reality. Understandable, but unhelpful. Of course politicians and the media want you to keep spending. They need revenue/ad revenue.

you know who are taking notice of the societal and economic cost of the current mass repeat infections strategy? Insurers. Actuaries. The business & economic press.
They are worried, as they should be.

This post-lockdown la la la it’s going away one day stage is unfortunate but here we are. The next stage will arrive soon enough. And I’m sorry for what it will bring.

You do realise many of the excess deaths are down to people not seeking help during lockdown. So cancer went undetected, hearts conditions were missed. People didn’t get the medication they needed.

The excess deaths are a huge concern. They would be on the death certificate as Covid if that was the cause. Only for some reason we are not hearing about lots of Covid deaths and hospitals being overwhelmed? We are not hearing about loads of people ill with Covid. That because as a population we have built up some immunity…

I’m pretty sure the increase in death rates amongst the 20-44 age group has nothing to do with Covid! What a ridiculous thing to say. Source??

ILoveMontyDon · 06/07/2023 21:16

I have this conversation with my child who was 8 at the time. We both look back on it like a weird dream and wonder if 'it' actually happened.

It's even more mind blowing that they knew it was no more than deadly flu from the start (not to say fu can't be deadly).

It's weird. It was the biggest con we've ever seen. It's breath-taking.

Worldgonecrazy · 06/07/2023 21:25

I do believe that the media / government driven fear has driven some people quite quite mad!

PriOn1 · 06/07/2023 21:28

Personally I’m worried about what will happen if another pandemic hits. I don’t really feel that enough has been learned to cope the next time and psychologically I hadn’t really imagined it could be so awful, even though I was in a country where lockdown was relatively relaxed. I hope I don’t live to see another one.

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 21:44

Trying to gently explain that Covid increases the risks of cardiovascular events in the months and years post infection. How Covid acts as a force multiplier. How Covid infections are often not fully cleared and the virus remains in the body. There is now a lot of studies covering this. It is known now that a percentage of people damaged by Covid will then die months or years after of other things aggravated by the Covid; heart attacks, strokes, DVT etc. They won’t go down as Covid deaths. But the Covid infection increased the risk. As did inadequate NHS care caused by pressure and yes, the stress of lockdowns too. But to ignore the damage caused to organs by SARS2 itself and only focus on damage caused by the measures taken to control it is foolish.

Covid is a thrombotic cardiovascular attacking virus, that enters the body via the respiratory system. It binds to ACE2 receptors everywhere it can. It damages the endothelial lining of the circulatory system. It is multi systemic.

Read the British Heart Foundation. It is staggering.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2023/june/100000-excess-deaths-cardiovascular-disease

To ask if anyone else feels like the covid era is a bad dream
teaandtoastwithmarmite · 06/07/2023 21:46

Yes it was a ridiculous time but my dad died during it so I can't really forget it

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 22:03

Oh someone wanted to see the 20-44 deaths
CMI Q1 mortality England & Wales

To ask if anyone else feels like the covid era is a bad dream
SleepyTimesTable · 06/07/2023 22:05

No, no absolutely not in the slightest. It feels very real and I realise that we have collectively been traumatised and manipulated. It feels very real and not abstract or distant. It feels exactly like 2 years in a life time.

I was not lucky enough to be furloughed r not to work. So homeschooling plus FT WFH. It was atrocious.

the hype and ignorance at the time will give psychologist lots of research options for years to comes.
IMV, YABU

SleepyTimesTable · 06/07/2023 22:07

Covid is a thrombotic cardiovascular attacking virus, that enters the body via the respiratory system. It binds to ACE2 receptors everywhere it can. It damages the endothelial lining of the circulatory system.

It is multi systemic.

And engineered.

Delatron · 06/07/2023 22:18

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 22:03

Oh someone wanted to see the 20-44 deaths
CMI Q1 mortality England & Wales

No.

You claimed that Covid was causing the excess deaths in the 20-44 year old age groups. That doesn’t show that. The more you post, the more I understand why you live your life why you do…

Covid really isn’t the only illness in the world you know. It’s not healthy to be so focused on it…

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 23:10

@delatron I said excess deaths. Please review. I have also explained consistently that Covid & Long Covid are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, and kindly stop acting like me choosing to wear an item of PPE apparel when I feel it would be helpful is some drastic failure to live my life. You’d no doubt be very surprised if you spent a few months in S Korea or Japan, where masking is totes normal and NBD.

To ask if anyone else feels like the covid era is a bad dream
Bloodysoapoperas · 07/07/2023 02:58

@OwlHop absolutely agree.
There was quite a lot of research suggesting the virus affects all organs and it isn’t solely a respiratory illness. This was fairly early on in in the pandemic. Anecdotally we had quite a few covid patients sustaining CVS events like CVA and MI, issues with clotting and inflammation. I myself have ended up with a form of micro vascular angina from its effects and also POTs.

OCaptain · 07/07/2023 03:18

NoChanceYouMetalBastard · 06/07/2023 17:18

How would you know it was mild from very early on? Did you create the virus?

Because we were told, right from the start in 2020 by (I think) Chris Witty "this is a mild illness for the vast majority of people".

The poster in question termed as if she herself had made that determination. That wouldn't surprise me, either, given the history of their posts. (And unlikely to be a keen listener of Chris Whitty.)

OCaptain · 07/07/2023 03:23

sunglassesonthetable · 06/07/2023 17:23

Because we were told, right from the start in 2020 by (I think) Chris Witty "this is a mild illness for the vast majority of people".

But a small percentage across a population is a big number - and that's what happened to the hospitals in Italy and was starting to happen here.

Don't talk sense, Sunglasses! That'll doesn't compute, ie. "irrelevant". Also, they seem to have forgotten that 'mild' in the medical sense is 'not having to go to hospital'. 🙄

DarkForces · 07/07/2023 04:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Delatron · 07/07/2023 07:24

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 23:10

@delatron I said excess deaths. Please review. I have also explained consistently that Covid & Long Covid are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, and kindly stop acting like me choosing to wear an item of PPE apparel when I feel it would be helpful is some drastic failure to live my life. You’d no doubt be very surprised if you spent a few months in S Korea or Japan, where masking is totes normal and NBD.

I am disagreeing with you that the current excess deaths are due to Covid infections - it’s not difficult to understand that. You review. If 1000s of young people were dropping dead every month from Covid infections then we’d know about it.

Sadly my view (and many others) is that the excess deaths are a knock on effect of lockdown and the lack of access to medical care and treatments. Amongst other reasons. But that’s a whole other thread.

You have quoted no evidence that shows excess deaths are Covid deaths. None.

Delatron · 07/07/2023 07:30

OwlHop · 06/07/2023 23:10

@delatron I said excess deaths. Please review. I have also explained consistently that Covid & Long Covid are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, and kindly stop acting like me choosing to wear an item of PPE apparel when I feel it would be helpful is some drastic failure to live my life. You’d no doubt be very surprised if you spent a few months in S Korea or Japan, where masking is totes normal and NBD.

You’re not just wearing PPE though are you? You don’t even go inside any building without a mask. You never eat in restaurants, you are passing on your irrational fears to your teenagers which must be having a huge impact on their lives. That’s the worst part of it. Teenagers have missed out on so much. Having to constantly worry and think about getting Covid be tiresome.

I doubt people in S.Korea and Japan never eat out! They don’t take it to your level.

Does your teenager go to school? If so they will get Covid at some point and your efforts will be pointless. And you’ll have zero immunity.

Crikeyalmighty · 07/07/2023 08:23

@SleepyTimesTable I agree- very likely that this was some kind of 'germ warfare' that leaked out and the idea it was full of banana bread making, WFH and jolly teams chats with mates is simply not the experience of plenty

OwlHop · 07/07/2023 12:50

@Delatron not sure why you keep misreading/misrepresenting what’s being said. If someone dies ten months after having a Covid infection of a stroke, is Covid infection or stroke listed as immediate cause of death?

But now please consider that the Covid infection itself increased the risk of heart attack and stroke in the year following infection. Which means sadly, some excess deaths from cardiovascular events will be linked to an earlier Covid infection. This isn’t controversial.

Now look at the excess death figures in the context of this. Consider the impact of poverty, NHS pressure, lockdown MH trauma as well. But please factor in the well-known fact that Covid infection itself is a proven risk factor. Yes, even for at least a whole year after the person isn’t testing positive.

If you will not even contemplate this, then it’s clear you are refusing to consider the impact of a virus which has infected millions and causes cardiovascular damage (and multi-organ systemic silent damage) other than during the days or weeks of initial acute infection.
This is telling.

I literally linked to the British Heart Foundation who wrote about 100k excess deaths and I ringed the part where they said

“But while deaths from Covid-19 have since fallen year-on-year, the number of deaths involving cardiovascular disease have remained high above expected levels

We believe that there are now other major factors likely driving the continued increase in excess deaths involving cardiovascular disease, including the severe, ongoing disruption to NHS heart care, and Covid-19 increasing the risk of heart attack and stroke.”

https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2023/june/100000-excess-deaths-cardiovascular-disease

I also linked one of the definitive studies on the effect of Covid on the body after the initial infection upthread too.

Very odd that you will only consider lockdowns and NHS pressure as involved in excess death but not the virus which infected millions and is known to increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes months and years after the initial infection. Yes, even in the young. A small percentage of a large number of people is still a significant number.

Of course at no point did I say 000s of young people were dropping dead each month from Covid infections. Please stop using hyperbole and straw men. What I said is excess deaths are up including 20-44 cohort, which you can see for yourself.

I supplied info re Covid affects on the body inc heightened cardiovascular risks in the months and years after infections, (as well as considering lockdown & NHS pressure). Plenty of other people on the thread have shared their devastating experiences with long Covid and tragic bereavement.

Teenager does indeed go to school. He masks inside. He chooses to. So does his best friend, the one with the mom having chemo who is CVE. There is no worry, no constant risk evaluation, it’s like putting on a seatbelt: on and done, barely notice.

I notice you won’t apparently consider that families might want to protect a CV member. Why not? I’ve pointed out 16,000 young people were orphaned earlier in thread. No reaction from you about that either.

The kids don’t mask at home, outside, at recess, or at the skate park or when hanging out in each other’s houses. In lots of countries, kids masked inside and some continue to do when protecting themselves or others. We are all vaccinated and boosted as well (so hardly zero immunity) but still taking steps to avoid infection whilst getting on with our lives. As I’ve explained; we have friends now disabled by Covid.

Perhaps you are an anti masker who doesn’t like to see people wearing masks because it upsets you? You are perhaps very invested in believing you and your family are going to be ok and you’ve suffered enough? Understandable belief.

That’s the only reason I can think of for why you’re so upset about other people choosing to use ffp as a protective tool in 2023. I can’t believe that you’re super mad that I don’t eat inside restaurants; plenty of other people don’t eat out either, for all sorts of reasons, and everything else - travel, arts, etc we can easily do wearing a respirator.

There’s a final part of this which is the publishing of ventilation levels using CO2 levels as proxy which Japan and Korea do which allows citizens to make more informed choices about eating inside, because they can assess risk (also better data on current infection levels). Using a CO2 monitor allows people to check ventilation levels inside. One of the reasons the Covid-aware/CV/Long Covid/disability community continues to advocate for clean air which greatly reduces risks.

Lockdown, living through Covid was undeniably traumatic and this thread is a testament to that.
Its not 2019 anymore. Life has changed, and lives, health, businesses, NHS, trust in institutions, have been lost, or badly damaged. I can totally see why people want to “go back to normal”. There are people who can’t, because they are suffering from long Covid and there are people who are dead. And there are people who want to resist the message that infection is inevitable and even good

To ask if anyone else feels like the covid era is a bad dream