To think D of E is a massive swindle

[DofEswindle]

Namechanged in case DD sees this!

She's doing Duke of Edinburgh Bronze with the school for the bargain (hah!) price of £250. I thought everything would be included for that money but we've now been told they need to get a rucksack liner ("no bin bags!") and fancy Wayfarer meal sachets ("no pot noodles!") as well as being told we can hire sleeping mats, sleeping bags etc. if we don't have them.

It just feels like a massive cash-in by the company organising it and Go Outdoors etc to make as much money as they can from gullible parents (me). I assumed the kids would meal plan together and work out what supplies to bring but they've all been told to get special sachets of ready meals at £4.50 each ("no pot noodles" but they are basically posh pot noodles).

Surely D of E should be about teamwork and loving the outdoors not sending your mum to spend a fortune in a camping shop? We're not on benefits so couldn't claim any help from school but £250 is an awful lot of money to spend a night in a field.

4 days work?

Not much training and preparation going on then.

If an expedition supervisor is paid £160 a day for four days that is already £640.

Are the participants providing all their own kit, including tents, sleeping bags, rucksacks, stoves. If not there are additional costs for the expedition supervisor in providing them. If the superisor is running a business then there will be insurance costs. Travel is not cheap at the moment. It all adds up,

The school should explain this really.
I'm guessing there may be travel costs to cover (coach or bus hire) and pitch fees for camping.
The school has to register for DofE too and that's very expensive.
Best to ask and see what they say.

My boy’s just completed his with school at a cost of £125. He survived on gingernuts, jellybabies and pasta, I’m not sure expensive nutritious meals are that important for a 36hr trip?

Rucksack liners completely passed me by.

£250 sounds a lot! Seems very unfair how much it varies by.

From my DH - DofEswindle The award in general is very worthwhile and I would encourage anyone who’s child showed an interest.
The biggest problem now is that most schools have contracted out the expedition section of the award to (AAP) Approved Activity Providers as they either don’t have the staff willing to volunteer the time or the schools local licensing provider will have strict levels of qualifications required to be able to run the expeditions.
Wayfarer type meals are ok for Bronze but they are heavy and as you have alluded expensive, check out the calorific content of a bag and it becomes even more expensive to get the calories required, they also don’t do much for teamwork or show that you can create a balanced menu.
Rubble bags work perfectly fine as both a rucksack liner and also for putting a roll mat in, if anything make sure the sleeping bag is dry and the inner part of the tent if they have to carry that part, other things although unpleasant if wet aren’t so vital.
I speak from having helped to run a Gold group that specifically did the expedition section for 13 years, we closed due to the licensing provider wanting more and more hoops jumped through each year, 16 of us were all volunteers with no financial reward aside from petrol expenses and accommodation paid for, granted things have got more expensive in the last 10 years but we provided 2 day walks, 3 weekend practice walks and their main expedition for just over £300 in our final year.
Having said all that, a day to the palace if they complete Gold is something they will remember and cherish for many years.

It's not about making it easier for people, it's about levelling the field. He didn't need that particular adjustment so he wouldn't have been granted it.

We run all of ours in house- state school- bronze is free, and open to the whole of year 9, then it’s £60ish for silver and gold is nearer £100, depends a little on the uptake year on year.

We have 8 trained assessors and quite a few more supervisors, although very, very few female so that’s sometimes a slight issue.

I suspect as we are getting less good will from leadership we may start to struggle to staff expeditions… but for now it’s exceedingly good value!

Gosh! Our school has an amazing outdoor education facility linked to its cadet force, and all we had to pay for DofE silver was the £70 registration fee, then I think about £30 for each of the two expeditions. Bin liners are fine for rucksacks - and they have lots of equipment such as boots, rucksacks and sleeping bags for anyone who doesn't have their own. Food is provided.

We are obviously very lucky - I'd never thought about how other school manage it, but if you have to hire an external company it's bound to push prices up...

My dd did Bronze last year. I didnt pay anything like the amount you've been quoted op. We had almost all the equipment already - all dd needed was a new pair of boots. Food wise she took a packet of Bachelors packet pasta (add water, stir, heat, stir, eat!) lots of snacks. I cant quite remember what tbh but none of it was anything special or fancy - I seem to recall I discovered the concept that is a weetabix breakfast to go thing (bottle of milk thats got weetabix in it?) Belvitas mmm not had them before (Im now addicted to them!) She had that for breakfast the following day.
"expedition" wise - that was a total joke - they walked for several hours, easy walking. No adventure or expedition involved. Just a walk lunch walk set up tent.
The only costs I recall on top of the new boots she needed was about £30 that went to DofE? And about £50 for the trip itself.

Im happy my dd got to do Bronze...... I guess. But the certificate she got is awful. Not credible at all (no idea why she got such a crummy certificate). Im hoping that next year she will have the opportunity to do Silver and that Silver will be run better.

You can get dry sacks from home bargains, or sometimes the pound shop does them. Basically you need something to keep clothes dry, and a dry bag to store wet clothes.
Sleeping bags, you don't need to spend a fortune, you can get second hand (just wash it before using it😂). You can make a bag warmer by adding a liner, again you can buy secondhand.
Food wayfarer and other brands cheaper off Amazon, pot noodle isn't great, as there is more packaging to carry around, but flapjacks are brilliant for keeping up energy levels.
Camping mat again eBay is your friend.
Similarly first aid kit, eBay or Amazon, home bargains, likely to be cheaper than 'Go outdoors'.
Yes decent waterproofs don't come cheap, but you can pick up unissued army surplus gortex coats and trousers for around £45-60. Might not be stylish but very practical.
Again a good backpack, one with chest and hip straps, can be picked up second hand.
You can always sell it on again....or store it for uni days😀

I forgot to say - bin bags were fine as rucksack liners. And she didnt need any specific named brand equipment either - just whatever we already had or was available. Nowt fancy or specific.

Do it with the scouts/explorers, I only pay £25 for the expedition DofE gold and they lent kit it people needed it.

Our council runs our DofE though the school. It’s the same department that organises school clubs at the leisure centres.
we paid £65 for bronze. They were told thick rubble bags better than bin liners, they provide all the stoves, tents and pans and had a supply of sleeping bags, rucksacks etc if needed.
we do scouts so we have most of the other stuff already.

I voted YABU because most of what you describe isn't actually a DofE issue. They're down to your chosen provider making decisions.

We provided most camping kit for our students who do DofE. They sorted their own meals on a budget of their choice as long as they're appropriately nutritious and they aren't filling up on pot noodle and junk food. We kept costs down by running it as a volunteer team of staff as enough of us had the appropriate qualifications.

Other schools I know have a private company who run DofE and the costs are very high. That's down to the company though, not DofE.

Both my children's schools were amazing and did this with staff and cheaper, their dedication was fantastic and the walks really demanding, it was blisters all around, especially for the practice walk! We bought one rucksack between the two of them plus it's already been travelling since so it's been a good investment. Other than that, we borrowed a lot of the stuff and the school had tents and food. No Wayfarer meals, they were given a list of good food ideas and high calorie things to carry plus water bottles, the whole thing was well organized. I would not blame teachers for not carrying this on though with all the pressures of their jobs and stress of the past few years but it was a really special moment when the team leader came back after organizing her last walk (ever), quite a few tears were shed.

Wide variety. I think £250 is too much.

At my school we are charging £195 for bronze. £50 deposit plus £145 for the expedition, and the £145 goes straight to activity provider. The £50 covers the DofE welcome pack/login which is around £24 and then as a school we have to pay £1500 for a licence fee which has to be split between students. We also have to buy some equipment and pay thing like staff petrol costs, lunch and dinner for staff on expedition. We make no money. In fact this time we have lost money as the coach was really expensive to get them there and back and I didn't dare ask for more money so we are having to take the money from existing funds.

We pay the £145 for pupil premium students. We also lend rucksacks and stoves and tents are provided by the AAP. So in theory no barriers. They don't pay towards coach. Quite a few PP students drop out before the expedition which is a shame.

I think it's a lot of responsibility for staff to be honest. Plus they're camping out with the kids.

If your child is old enough to be doing DofE, they are old enough to be doing some work (odd jobs, paper round, dog walking etc.) to raise the money needed, either beforehand or to pay you back. DofE is meant to be about developing skills and character, after all. It sounds as though a commercial company is needed to run it as in this instance there aren't the volunteers or resources at the school to run it.

Something I don't understand is, if parents don't want to pay £250 for DofE, but would like their children to do it, why don't they volunteer to organise it?

@caringcarer Bless him. He sounds lovely. This is exactly my dd’s experience. She’s strong and super fit. One girl was struggling so dd took as much as would fit in her rucksack to lighten the load.

As for food, it isn’t cheap tbh. But I wouldn’t buy those sachets. Dd took pasta and someone took pasta sauce. You can get the 2 person pots cheaply. The boys did the same and everyone had had enough fuel in the day not to need a high calorie dinner.

Dd took the same for each day -

• Pepperami sausages
• Biscoffe paste sandwiches
• kendal mint cake
• flapjacks - various flavours to stave boredom
• raisins
• baby purée pouch but you could send an apple instead
• Dried mango
• pain au chocolat
• Choc chip brioche
• Belvita
• pasta (friend supplied the sauce)
• hot chocolate sachet - optional for bronze but with silver (dd just done silver) you need to cook in the morning
• sweets to share

As for plastic bags, the first time I forgot to buy bags but luckily I keep the the large, thick delivery bags from online ordering and we had enough. Her friend took paper plates btw.

Oh and dd’s rucksack was £50 second hand.

That's lovely. It made me tear up actually, don't really know why. What an amazing thing you do.

I loved it in the 90s and used the giant rucksack for YEARS! Doing things costs money if you don’t have the equipment!

If you think that’s bad, one of my children is in Pony Club and we must be about five figures into that 🤣

Cost me £30 for dd 9 years ago now admittedly, they could take whatever food they liked but they needed to supply gear except tents and stoves

Its cheeky. I wouldnt bother. Unless your child really wants to do it. Just another way to screw money out of the aspirational middle classes always looking for a way to give their child a leg up. A clear case of fomo.

Yes it sounds like you had a bad deal. Ours was £110. We already had a rucksack and sleeping bag and as walkers she had shoes. We definitely used a bin liner and she ate mainly protein bars 🤣. I'm grateful to the staff for giving up their time for this